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Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

By Jake Edge
March 18, 2020

Legislation recently proposed in the US Senate is ostensibly meant to combat "child sexual abuse material" (CSAM), but it does not actually do much to combat that horrible problem. Its target, instead, is the encryption of user communications, which the legislation—tellingly—never mentions. The Eliminating Abusive and Rampant Neglect of Interactive Technologies Act of 2020, EARN IT for short, is an attempt to force online service providers (e.g. Facebook, Google, etc.) to follow a set of "best practices" determined by a commission, to combat the scourge of CSAM; the composition of that commission makes it clear that end-to-end encryption will not be one of those practices, but companies that do not follow the best practices will lose liability protection for their users' actions. It is, in brief, an attempt to force providers to either abandon true end-to-end encryption or face ruinous lawsuits—all without "seeming" to be about encryption at all.

The bill

The EARN IT bill (i.e. proposed legislation) would set up a 19-member "National Commission on Online Child Sexual Exploitation Prevention":

The purpose of the Commission is to develop recommended best practices that providers of interactive computer services may choose to implement to prevent, reduce, and respond to the online sexual exploitation of children, including the enticement, grooming, sex trafficking, and sexual abuse of children and the proliferation of online child sexual abuse material.

The composition of the commission includes three administration officials, the Attorney General, Secretary of Homeland Security, and chairman of the Federal Trade Commission, along with 16 other members in several different groups. Four will be from law enforcement or the prosecution of CSAM crimes, four will be either survivors of those crimes or professionals who work with the victims, four from the "interactive computer service" industry, two experienced in constitutional law, consumer protection, or privacy, and two computer scientists experienced in "cryptography, data security, or artificial intelligence". That mention of "cryptography" is as close as the bill gets to talking about encryption.

The commission only requires 14 of its members to agree on the best practices, however, so the computer scientists and consumer-protection specialists could be ignored entirely, for example. Worse than that, though, is that the Attorney General and other administration officials effectively have veto power over the best practices list. Since they will be participating in the formulation of the list, it seems a tad unlikely that it will not be to their liking. Since the current Attorney General (and, really, all of his predecessors no matter which of the two dominant parties is appointing them) is strongly anti-encryption, one would guess that providing a backdoor "for law enforcement" will make the list.

But the consequences of not following these commission-established rules is where the "earn" part comes in. Companies that offer interactive computer services are currently shielded from liability based on the actions of their users via section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (CDA), which came about in 1996. It effectively treats service providers as mere conduits, rather than as publishers; the latter have far more liability for the content they purvey. Under EARN IT, though, service providers would only continue to receive section 230 protection if they follow the practices that the commission "recommends". Thus, they would earn their right be treated as telecommunications providers—but only if they bow to the best practices, which will certainly curtail true end-to-end encryption for users.

Opposition

Though opponents of EARN IT will be branded as CSAM-enablers, as always, that is not at all what the overwhelmingly vast majority of the opponents are after, of course. It is always the same litany of bad people (e.g. terrorists, abusers of children) that can use encryption to hide their activities, but encryption is used by regular people for their normal activities, which is extremely important to note. The foundation of all financial transactions on the web, for example, is encryption. People would not be able to safely work, bank, shop, and so on from home, while, say, trying to flatten the curve during a pandemic, without encryption. Like it or not—and politicians hate it, if they even believe it—there is no way to have "magic" encryption that works for everything except when law enforcement wants to have a peek.

Over the years, countless cryptographers and security experts have patiently explained that there is no known way, mathematically, to provide a backdoor for the "good guys" without also effectively providing an opening for the "bad guys". Sometimes the definition of "bad guys" differs, of course. There have been numerous instances where rogue law enforcement agencies and individuals have abused various safeguards for their own gain—or even a perceived societal gain. There are also plenty of instances where rogue employees of online providers have accessed information by using backdoors intended to be used only by the authorities.

Weakening encryption makes it less effective for everyone. Lawmakers often seem to forget how much of the government uses the same online services they are targeting; leaving holes for law enforcement also may be leaving holes for attackers, some of whom may be working for the intelligence services of less-than-friendly rivals. Companies and regular folks may be more concerned with interception of their secrets, almost all of which have nothing to do with terrorism, CSAM, or any other illegal activity.

Beyond that, creating a list of best practices may preclude innovations that could actually help combat CSAM. Once the list of best practices has been adopted, it will be slow to change—commissions are simply another name for committees, after all. Providers will be leery of putting their companies at risk by adding features that violate the best practices, even if the result might be that more criminal behavior would be found. It effectively locks providers into what are best practices—at least hopefully, other than encryption restrictions—as they stand today (or, perhaps, in 18 months when the commission is supposed to conclude its work). In a fast-moving environment like the internet of today, that's simply too risky.

As might be guessed, various online privacy advocates, lawyers with a background in internet matters, cryptographers, and others have come out strongly against EARN IT. Perhaps cryptographer Matthew Green put it best:

Since there are no "best practices" in existence, and the techniques for doing this while preserving privacy are completely unknown, the bill creates a government-appointed committee that will tell technology providers what technology they have to use. The specific nature of the committee is byzantine and described within the bill itself. Needless to say, the makeup of the committee, which can include as few as zero data security experts, ensures that end-to-end encryption will almost certainly not be considered a best practice.

So in short: this bill is a backdoor way to allow the government to ban encryption on commercial services. And even more beautifully: it doesn't come out and actually ban the use of encryption, it just makes encryption commercially infeasible for major providers to deploy, ensuring that they'll go bankrupt if they try to disobey this committee's recommendations.

It's the kind of bill you'd come up with if you knew the thing you wanted to do was unconstitutional and highly unpopular, and you basically didn't care.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has, unsurprisingly, come out strongly opposed to EARN IT (here too). Riana Pfefferkorn of the Stanford Law School Center for Internet and Society has been analyzing the implications of the bill since before it was even introduced; more recently here and here. There is lots of additional analysis out there, much of it linked from the reactions above. EARN IT is extraordinarily bad legislation in multiple dimensions, with far-reaching effects that may run afoul of the first, fourth, and fifth amendments to the US Constitution (i.e. part of the "Bill of Rights").

Section 230 has been, rightly or wrongly, targeted by various "sides" over the last few years, in part because of the disinformation war that was waged on social media sites during the last US Presidential election (and other elections elsewhere). The so-called "techlash"—backlash against the online service providers such as Facebook and Twitter—is providing cover for EARN IT. One hopes that it was simply a coincidence, but it would seem that many Americans have more important, health-related concerns right now, so they may not be paying close attention to attempts to circumvent the secrecy protections they want—and need. Whether it was planned or not, Covid-19 is definitely providing cover of a different sort for EARN IT.

The most galling thing about attacks against encryption is that, whether they understand it or not, legislators and others who push for backdoors are only hurting regular users for the most part. Those who are technically savvy, or are willing to hire people with those talents, can certainly communicate securely without concern for government surveillance. Mathematics exists, much to the chagrin, if not outright bafflement, of politicians and others; those who need or want effectively unbreakable encryption can have it. Those who cannot have it are the regular users, unless it is made available to them by various social-media platforms and the like. And, as mentioned earlier, some of those regular users are the very legislators behind this attack, alongside much of the rest of the government they are part of. It would almost be comical if it was not so disheartening.

EARN IT is a neat piece of work—in a sick sort of way. It trumpets the oft-used "but what about the children?" battle cry in a ploy to misdirect the public from its actual aims. That, sadly, is so often the case with this kind of legislation. This is a bill worth keeping an eye on—and trying to stop, if possible. It is a well-crafted attack, however, and pushes all the right buttons, so it may well pass; at that point, presumably, the fight will move to the court system. The crypto wars have come yet again ... stay tuned.


Index entries for this article
SecurityEncryption
SecurityLegislation


to post comments

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 17:07 UTC (Wed) by sub2LWN (subscriber, #134200) [Link] (37 responses)

> whether they understand it or not, legislators and others who push for backdoors are only hurting regular users for the most part.

This type of ongoing "bipartisan" effort has undermined trust in American technology, doing immeasurable (if not irreparable) sabotage over decades. It may also boost interest in strong cryptography globally and domestically similar to the chaotic fervor that occurs when there's talk of a large-scale gun grab or prohibitions of other sorts.

Only one country is excluded by name from contributing to OpenBSD's crypto efforts:

https://www.openbsd.org/crypto.html

> Of course, our project needs people to work on these systems. If any non-American cryptographer who meets the constraints listed earlier is interested in helping out with embedded cryptography in OpenBSD, please contact us.

This infinitely rehashed Dissuade Users From American Security Systems (DUFASS) Act of 2020 will ensure that we remain firmly at the bottom of the industry (if not the field) for the foreseeable future.

Cui bono? Users who would have otherwise trusted companies like Facebook to safeguard their communications?

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 18:45 UTC (Wed) by dvdeug (guest, #10998) [Link] (7 responses)

I think you and OpenBSD are being a little short sighted; the same factors that lead the US to do this lead many of the nations in the world to do the same thing. Australia and the UK have been right with the US on complaining to Facebook and the like; see e.g. https://www.extremetech.com/internet/281991-australia-bec... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encryption_ban_proposal_in_... . Thirty nations completely shut down the Internet, over at least some part of their territory, in 2019; I'm pretty sure they're all aboard stopping people from using secure encryption.

If https://www.gp-digital.org/world-map-of-encryption/ is to be trusted, large chunks of the world have some restrictions on encryption. There's no point in just pointing fingers at the US.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 0:20 UTC (Thu) by ILMostro (guest, #105083) [Link] (4 responses)

Given its hegemonic status in terms of financial, technological, and military strength, pointing the finger at the US is not unwarranted. It's obvious that other countries have been doing this and will continue to do so. However, rather than increasing resources and focus on technological prowess, the US has decided to focus on maintaining superiority in traditional warfare. Trampling the rights of its citizens and the interest of its companies to try to, essentially, preempt any potential security threat. For the past two decades, at least, the American ideals of personal freedom, which are touted as inalienable rights, have been eroded; either through secretive judicial acts or in the open with impunity. If this is to continue as it stands right now or to escalate, as this additional legislation suggests, then the American public and its government have to reconcile with the idea that their two-hundred-year-old experiment failed; that the ideals enshrined in the Constitution failed to secure their democracy from slipping into an authoritarian government; that the only form of government that can be sustained is one where those ideals are irrelevant.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 22:51 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

The problem is that America (and many Americans) expect everybody INCLUDING NON-AMERICANS to act in America's best interest. COME ON!!! Why on earth should I behave in a manner I perceive as NOT being in my interest, to benefit a bunch of people I have no interest in?

I'm very much a socialist - not a "Big Government" socialist, but there are a lot of places where I believe collective - ENFORCED - action is very much to the net advantage of the people involved. And I see America with its Capitalist, "Devil take the hindmost", Wild West attitude as the enemy.

Until I feel that America sees us as an equal, and not as a small nation to be ignored, dictated to or taken advantage of, I'm not going to trust them. Sorry if that offends American sensibilities, but that is the way many outside of America perceive it.

Cheers,
Wol

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 20, 2020 4:14 UTC (Fri) by dvdeug (guest, #10998) [Link] (2 responses)

You're demanding something you're not offering. Why on earth should the US behave in a manner NOT being in its best interest, to benefit a bunch of foreigners in a foreign nation? I seriously doubt that Germany treats San Marino or Haiti as equals, instead of small nations to be dictated to. I'm pretty sure Greece has some complaints in that department about Germany, as well. For another perspective, the US treats Germany as a equal in the same way that the German soccer team treats the US soccer team as an equal; we'll meet you on field of battle, but we're not going to let you score against us unless you can force us to let you score.

I don't ask for you to trust the US, whatever that means. What I do ask is that you don't act like China or Russia are more trustworthy, and that you don't turn a blind eye when other democratic nations push forward encryption restrictions or the like.

> And I see America with its Capitalist, "Devil take the hindmost", Wild West attitude as the enemy.

It's funny that you post this on an article about how America is being uncapitalist by restricting corporations in the name of the public good.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 20, 2020 13:00 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> You're demanding something you're not offering.

I'm not. It helps if you read what I wrote. I most definitely do not expect Americans to disadvantage themselves in my favour - I object to them expecting me to disadvantage myself.

If you offer me a "win win", I'll take it. If I want something from you, I'll try and offer a "win win". America just ASSUMES we'll be happy with a "win lose", when we're the ones losing. NO WAY!!!

Cheers,
Wol

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 20, 2020 13:03 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> It's funny that you post this on an article about how America is being uncapitalist by restricting corporations in the name of the public good.

Isn't the article about America restricting corporations FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE STATE (and the *un*benefit of the public good)?

All hail the minister of the Department For Truth ...

Cheers,
Wol

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 14:52 UTC (Thu) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (1 responses)

The US is however the only country that tries to apply its laws extra-territorially. If the US wants to seal off its internet and make encryption illegal within its borders, then go right ahead. But the US has a history of trying to make encryption unavailable to the rest of the world, and of sanctioning foreign countries/companies to achieve its ends and so should be treated with the utmost suspicion.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 15:48 UTC (Thu) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link]

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 19:44 UTC (Wed) by Rudd-O (guest, #61155) [Link] (5 responses)

If the U.S. goes with EARN IT, you can be god damn sure that all FVEY will go with it.

And that means the end of end-to-end encryption for all practical purposes and intents. Even Signal could not continue to exist. Tor's gone too. It's bye bye.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 22:32 UTC (Wed) by jmclnx (guest, #72456) [Link] (4 responses)

I do not see things being "gone", Signal, tor and others can just move their headquarters to another country. If a 'first world' country wants to step up they could very well swallow/overtake silicon valley. This leaving the US a tech backwater.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 0:51 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

> I do not see things being "gone", Signal, tor and others can just move their headquarters to another country.
And then VISA will block them and the US will issue an arrest warrant for their founders.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 16:12 UTC (Thu) by freemars (subscriber, #4235) [Link]

Maybe VISA will become less important.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 21, 2020 19:24 UTC (Sat) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

> the US will issue an arrest warrant for their founders.

Sure.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/24/21150918/european-comm...
> Signal becomes European Commission’s messaging app of choice in security clampdown. It’s the recommended app for public instant messaging

I heard Angela Merkel wasn't super happy when Snowden told her the NSA was spying on her.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 1:35 UTC (Thu) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

That's entirely realistic, all Silicon Valley companies uprooting everything. Plausible, possible, probable, realistic.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 17:41 UTC (Thu) by tekNico (subscriber, #22) [Link] (22 responses)

> If any non-American cryptographer

As an aside, I find it rather sad that a Canada-based project uses the word "American" to mean "USA citizen". America is obviously a continent (which includes Canada, by the way), not a country.

Why sad? Because it's cultural appropriation, in addition to being imprecise and confusing. You would never say "European" to mean "German", for instance.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 18:05 UTC (Thu) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

Trivia point: there's only one country with the name "America" in it. There are two countries with the name "United States". So "America" contraction is fair.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 18:52 UTC (Thu) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link] (16 responses)

In my experience it's far more common for Europeans (besides Americans) to refer to the United States of America as "America" than it is for Canadians. Given that the foreign audience for that article is larger than the "domestic" (Canadian) audience, it would make sense to adapt to what people elsewhere are used to.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 19:07 UTC (Thu) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link] (15 responses)

More to the point, though, how else would one refer to an American? There is no other widely recognized demonym, and while I've seen "USian" and "US American" used informally, the effect is for me usually to sow confusion in my mind. Even "USA citizen" (as you employed) is reductive as not all people who would be American for the purposes of OpenBSD's concerns are citizens. If you have to go to the trouble of saying "nationals and residents of the United States of America" to get the same point across as just saying "Americans", whom does it really help? That the continent I live on is called "America" is completely unimportant to my life, and I attach no importance to being a person from the Americas; as far as I'm concerned they can keep the word.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 22:07 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (6 responses)

The UK has the same problem, saved by the fact that 'Briton' refers to *almost* the same people -- and unsaved by the fact that, to a first approximation, nobody uses the word 'Briton' other than newspapers.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 20, 2020 13:05 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Not helped by the fact that "Briton", in modern British usage, means someone who was here before the Anglo-Saxons arrived ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 22:30 UTC (Wed) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359) [Link] (4 responses)

We don't say "Briton", we say "British", which is an adjective just like "American" is.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 16, 2024 22:55 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

Bear in mind also, that Briton and Breton are (historically) the same word.

Nowadays the distinction is that Britons come from Grand Bretagne, while Bretons come from Petit Bretagne.

Nationality is complicated ... and usually rooted in myth, not fact, to boot ...

Cheers,
Wol

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 19, 2024 7:53 UTC (Mon) by laarmen (subscriber, #63948) [Link] (2 responses)

Since we're wading into linguistic pedantry, that'd be Grande-Bretagne (Great Britain) vs Bretagne (Brittany). Brittany is culturally divided into Lower and Upper Brittany, so as a Breton I would probably wonder if you're talking about Lower Brittany if you say "Petite Bretagne".

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 20, 2024 14:50 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

I did say it was complicated ... :-) and more myth than fact :-)

But I've always understood Grand- and Petit- Bretagne to be a matching pair, as in "the land of the Br(e/i)tons" before the Romans, so Petit-Bretagne to me is all of Brittany. I didn't know that was divided into "Upper" and "Lower".

Cheers,
Wol

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 20, 2024 23:45 UTC (Tue) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link]

Just by the way, Bretagne is feminine. La Grande-Bretagne est au nord de la plus petite Bretagne.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 12:52 UTC (Wed) by Delicieuxz (guest, #172896) [Link] (7 responses)

There are widely-recognized demonyms to refer to a US citizen other than the misnomer and misappropriation of American. Just maybe not in English.

In Spanish (which is the dominant language of America), there's "estadounidenses", which translates to United-Statesian. The shorter form for which would be USian.

In French, there's états-unien, which again translates to United-Statesian.

In Italian, there's statunitense, which is again United-Statesian.

In German, there's US-Amerikaner, which translates to US-American - as opposed to Canadian-American, Peruvian-American, Bolivian-American, etc.

In Canada, we rarely use the term America to refer to the US, or American to refer to a US citizen. We usually call the US the US, and a person from the US simply a US citizen, from the US, or from the States. Personally, I use the term USian all the time now.

I've seen it said on occasion "but Mexico's full name is the United States of Mexico, so wouldn't there be confusion there?" And that's not correct, as the full name of Mexico is actually The United Mexican States.

There's a document I saw on the Library of Congress' website which says that the trend of referring to US citizens as Americans wasn't popularized until the 20th century, and happened as a result of the US becoming an empire. So, it's an imperialist slang.

The continent America, with north and south sub-continents (like Eurasia has Europe and Asia sub-continents) was named America centuries before the US existed, and the US from its beginning was named merely "of" the continent America. In fact, in 1783, right before the US became a country, the states were being referred to as the united states of north America. Then the name was shortened to the US of A, but the America in the name always referred to the continent.

So, I don't feel comfortable calling the US by a name that misappropriates what belongs to 35 different countries, or its people's nationality by a term that applies to all the people of America. It's a misnomer and misappropriation, and is basically identity theft for the sake of aggrandizing and reinforcing the imperialist mindset in an impererialist state.

And I cringe a bit when people claim the term for the collective landmass of north and south America is "the Americas", as "the Americas" is plural, referring to multiple landmasses at once. The fact that "Americas" is plural testifies that, as a singular landmass, its name is America.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 13:12 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

There are widely-recognized demonyms to refer to a US citizen other than the misnomer and misappropriation of American. Just maybe not in English.

The architect Frank Lloyd Wright was in favour of the term “Usonian”, which however does not seem to have caught on.

The only language which appears to have picked it up is Esperanto, where the United States is called usono, and its inhabitants are usonanoj.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 14:58 UTC (Wed) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

I use USAsian. USian seems incomplete to me (United States of ... what? - ian?). USAsian also flows better when spoken.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 15:25 UTC (Wed) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link]

I suspect that if you use "USAsian" (either written or spoken) without sufficient context, many people will think you're talking about people of Asian ancestry in the US, so it will not be very effective at communicating your intent.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 19:42 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (2 responses)

> There are widely-recognized demonyms to refer to a US citizen other than the misnomer and misappropriation of American.

There are two countries with the words "United States" in the official name: the USA, and... Mexico. There's only one country with the word "America" in the official name.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 19:54 UTC (Wed) by daroc (editor, #160859) [Link] (1 responses)

Well, at the risk of being unnecessarily nitpicky: technically, the United States of Mexico's official name is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", as given by the current constitution, and therefore the words "United States" aren't in its name. While the country, like the USA, has no official language, the government does conduct business almost exclusively in Spanish.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 14, 2024 20:33 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

To add to the irony, "American" is probably the easiest and most correct demonym outside the USA. Something like "usian" will require other people to know English enough to understand what the "US" stands for.

"American" also doesn't clash with any other country's name (official or not). It would have been a different story if a significant number of people identified themselves as "North American" or "South American", but I don't think it's a thing?

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 20, 2024 12:32 UTC (Tue) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link]

> In Canada, we rarely use the term America to refer to the US, or American to refer to a US citizen. We usually call the US the US, and a person from the US simply a US citizen, from the US, or from the States.

You and I must live in different Canadas, then. While I agree "America" is practically never used outside an ironic context, I also rarely if ever hear fellow Canadians use a name for our southern neighbours other than "American" (or « américain » in French).

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 19, 2020 22:49 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

But in my native language pretty much everyone uses the word meaning English to all citizens (and things) of/from the UK. Even the "Battle of Britain" is called "angliai csata" (meaning Battle of England). Distinction is only made (if made at all) for football players, because they play for different national teams. Heck, when Czechoslovakia was still a country, we used to call even the Slovakians as "csehek" (Czechs). Natural languages are not precise or logical in all cases.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Mar 20, 2020 18:03 UTC (Fri) by sbdep (subscriber, #13282) [Link]

> As an aside, I find it rather sad that a Canada-based project uses the word "American" to mean "USA citizen". America is obviously a continent (which includes
> Canada, by the way), not a country.

As a Canadian, I can assure you that we universally refer to people from the USA as Americans, and never use "America" to refer to the continent.
Referring to the continent might be "North America", "South America", "Central America" (which is of course a fairly ambiguous term).

However the insistence of Europeans that the term "American" should refer to all people from "North America" or perhaps both "North and South America" is humourous :)

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 15, 2024 8:49 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

I don't understand the "cultural appropriation" thing, but in natural languages it's common that a word has multiple meanings and it's also common that words are not precise. For example in my native language "pesti" usually refers to something or somebody from or related to Budapest even though technically Pest is only one part of the city. The word "American" has also two meanings and one of its meaning might be considered imprecise. However, I don't think it's confusing it because almost always relates to the USA. If not, "American continent" or something like that is used. Trying to invent a Newspeak work for a supposed confusion just creates more confusion.

America is a continent, not a country

Posted Aug 16, 2024 22:57 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

But people are quite happy to say "English" when they mean "American" ...

(Those are nouns, not adjectives, by the way ...)

Cheers,
Wol

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 20:15 UTC (Wed) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106) [Link] (9 responses)

Our fundamental error here has been letting government officials get away for far too long with repeating the lie that commercial speech and speech conveyed through third-parties is not just as thoroughly covered by the principle of Freedom of Speech and the 1st Amendment as direct speech between individuals. Speech is speech, regardless of who is speaking, what they're speaking about, or how that speech is communicated. Threatening to punishing anyone for the content of speech either originating on or conveyed through their platform—even copyright-infringing material or CSAM—abridges the freedom of speech. The very concept of illegal content which this law is ostensibly aimed at policing is anathema to the Constitution, never mind the collateral damage on perfectly ordinary and inoffensive communications.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 20:50 UTC (Wed) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

The problem with your reasoned response is that the rebuttal is simply "<Politician X> sided with special interests against giving law enforcement the tools to protect your children from predators. But I will be be tough on crime, vote for me!"

(And it just goes downhill from there..)

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 10:45 UTC (Thu) by ale2018 (guest, #128727) [Link]

Correct. Who would dare to uphold CSAM now? Bigotry is anathema to freedom in the same sense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that there are cases where child sexual abuse is welcome. I'm saying that to overreact to any whisper about such subject undermines tolerance an civic sense.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 0:46 UTC (Thu) by ILMostro (guest, #105083) [Link] (6 responses)

I wonder how that rationale compares to CitizensUnited, where corporations were found to have freedom of speech protections. Obviously, there are plenty of problems either way. If there are unjust laws, it's up to the people to demand that those laws are changed. However, when the people are preoccupied working more than any other people around the world, they are too busy to know who their government representatives are, in some cases, much less what they are doing or to form an opinion about it. * https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jul/27/joe-biden/biden-almost-right-us-workers-most-productive/ * https://time.com/4621185/worker-productivity-countries/

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 13:50 UTC (Thu) by zlynx (guest, #2285) [Link] (4 responses)

Can you not repeat this misinformation?

Citizens United found that *the people* have free speech rights, even when using corporate resources.

And that isn't only giant international corporations, that's also unions, non-profits, farming co-ops, etc. Any organization.

Any organization is made up of people, and those people don't lose their rights when part of an organization.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 18:49 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (3 responses)

... except that it's not the people who are part of an organization who get the right to speak for it. It's the subset of those people who say what the rich people who run those organizations want them to say. It's money buying a (much) louder voice than everyone else, and thus gaining power, and thus corrupting the law. And that way lies oligarchy at best, plutocracy at worst.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 21, 2020 19:07 UTC (Sat) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (2 responses)

Trying to restrict the rich from having the loudest voice is laudable but totally futile, it can never work. The only counter-measure is "freedom of information" = *who* is paying for this or that propaganda. That is of course under attack too but it's a much simpler and actually winnable fight.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 24, 2020 8:47 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

"Never argue with a man who buys ink by the barrel"

Cheers,
Wol

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Apr 9, 2020 0:15 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

The only cures for inequality that have heretofore been known are warfare and plague, but that doesn't mean that warfare and plague are *good* things, or that it is not desirable to find other ways to reduce the power of the mighty. Of *course* it's worth trying to restrict the rich from having the loudest voice, just as it is desirable to restrict the rich and powerful from having absolute power of life and death over everyone.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 20, 2020 9:29 UTC (Fri) by nilsmeyer (guest, #122604) [Link]

It's not unique to the USA. Imagine having another Federal government (EU) on top of your Federal, State and local governments.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 20:58 UTC (Wed) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

A thing more nauseating than brand-name vulnerabilities… brand-name laws. Ugh.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 18, 2020 22:46 UTC (Wed) by JohnVonNeumann (guest, #131609) [Link]

If this is getting pushed at the moment, looks like they've taken a page from AusPol and are trying to rush through legislation during a time of uncertainty whilst people aren't looking. Quality governing.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 7:15 UTC (Thu) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (3 responses)

> Mathematics exists, much to the chagrin, if not outright bafflement, of politicians and others; those who need or want effectively unbreakable encryption can have it.

So, there's no point in gun control because the "bad guys" ignore regulations. Good thing they will comply with these new encryption rules /s

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 21, 2020 21:19 UTC (Sat) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989) [Link]

Furthermore, when we set up our our totally illegal unbiased news smuggling ring, @marcH, we'll doubtless use some out-of-band means to move one-time pads[1] and just thumb our noses at the authorities.

As with other external laws to manage behavior, this is doomed to affect mostly the law-abiding.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Apr 17, 2020 10:37 UTC (Fri) by niner (subscriber, #26151) [Link] (1 responses)

The difference is that it's kinda hard to have fatal accidents related to encryption and that encryption in the hands of mentally unstable people can be a nuisance at most. On the other side, contrary to encryption, guns are of no use to the general population.

So there's much benefit and little risk by making encryption available to the general population while there is little benefit and high risk by making guns generally available.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Apr 17, 2020 11:56 UTC (Fri) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]

> So there's much benefit and little risk by making encryption available to the general population while there is little benefit and high risk by making guns generally available.

I disagree; these restrictions aren't actually intended to benefit the _public_, but instead to benefit the _government_. And there is absolutely much risk involved (to the government) when it can't effectively spy on its own populace and pro-actively "redirect" agitators into less disruptive activities.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 19, 2020 11:21 UTC (Thu) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link] (15 responses)

It is pretty clear that the US courts are nothing more than a mechanism for the elites to bully the population (e.g. Citizen United), and that immunity is worthless when the courts are worthless. The English court system is the only one in the world when judges can write laws.

Remember that Code *is* Law

Posted Mar 19, 2020 11:23 UTC (Thu) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

Lawrence Lessig pointed out in 1999 that Code *is* Law, and has since been like "Why doesn't anyone realize this yet?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_and_Other_Laws_of_Cybe...

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 20, 2020 3:08 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (12 responses)

Other than weighing evidence, the only thing any court does is "write law". The court exists because people realized the legislative bodies would not be able to write a law so complete and precise that everyone would always agree on how it's supposed to apply to every case. The courts necessarily fill in those missing words.

I guess everyone's view of government is biased - different people notice and remember different court decisions. But I see courts being the savior of the common man on a regular basis. There are many powerful lobbies in the US that use the courts effectively for common people - American Civil Liberties Union, Consumers Union, National Rifle Association, American Association of Retired Persons, and countless labor unions. And, fortunately, non-wealthy people are able to pool their resources and participate in the government in corporate form.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 20, 2020 19:04 UTC (Fri) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683) [Link] (11 responses)

> the only thing any court does is "write law".

Only in countries with Common Law. In countries with Civil Law courts only interpret the laws given.

In my opinion Common Law is incompatible with Separation of powers because the judiciary takes part in the legislature.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 20, 2020 20:45 UTC (Fri) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link] (6 responses)

>In countries with Civil Law courts only interpret the laws given.

To me, that sounds like the legislature decides what the law says, and the judiciary decides what the law means, and thus from the practical perspective of a person interacting with the courts, the judiciary is involved in the legislative process, because "what the law means" is what determines whether a tort or crime will be found to have occurred.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 21, 2020 0:37 UTC (Sat) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683) [Link] (5 responses)

In Common Law a judge creates via precedence long-lasting law whereas in Civil Law no judge is bound by a decision made by another random judge but only by the law written by the legislature. So in Common Law a single judge can shift the meaning of the law for the whole judicial system. In Civil Law a single judge can make a dubious decision but this doesn't bind the next judge.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 21, 2020 19:21 UTC (Sat) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (4 responses)

> So in Common Law a single judge can shift the meaning of the law for the whole judicial system. In Civil Law a single judge can make a dubious decision but this doesn't bind the next judge.

Thank you. To answer another comment "bind" => not just a "matter of degree".

By the way Civil Law judges don't ignore precedence either. However they're not bound by it and free to add a different or more nuanced opinion (cases are never exactly the same) to the whole precedence corpus.

This "first judge past the post" idea is as ridiculous as the "winner-take-all" electoral college in most US states or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP gerrymandering. Loss of basic logic and common sense.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 21, 2020 21:23 UTC (Sat) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (3 responses)

This "first judge past the post" idea

If you're thinking of a system in which the first judge to interpret some aspect of a law sets binding precedent for every future application of that law, I don't know if that exists. I know it doesn't in the United States. In the US, a judge's decision is binding at most on the same court (which may have many judges), and often not even that. It's always binding on inferior courts, though.

[Civil law judges are] free to add a different or more nuanced opinion (cases are never exactly the same)

To the extent that cases are not exactly the same, common law judges have the same power and use it constantly. A judge finds that the instant case is different in some tiny but legally meaningful detail from a prior case, so deserves a different result. The only thing the common law judge can't do is say, "I disagree with my superior court's (or, sometimes, fellow judge's) reasoning in a prior identical case, so I'll rule differently on this one."

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 22, 2020 1:02 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

> To the extent that cases are not exactly the same, common law judges have the same power and use it constantly. A judge finds that the instant case is different in some tiny but legally meaningful detail from a prior case, so deserves a different result. The only thing the common law judge can't do is say, "I disagree with my superior court's (or, sometimes, fellow judge's) reasoning in a prior identical case, so I'll rule differently on this one."

Bear in mind that "common law" is an umbrella term for assorted courts. We have the criminal courts which interpret the law as laid down by Parliament, including punishments imposed by the state.

Then we have the civil courts, which interpret the parliamentary laws controlling society.

And one of the reasons we precedence is so important is because it WASN'T until about 150 years ago. Because we had (still do to some extent) the Court of Equity, whose purpose was to define what was fair in citizens dealings with each other. Any squabble taken to law that is not defined in law is taken to a Court of Equity. And you only have to read Dickens for a perfect example of a squabble gone seriously wrong. I don't like Dickens and don't know the story, but doesn't he have a lawsuit Jarndyce vs Jarndyce? This is based on a REAL case that lasted about 100 years and, like Jarndyce, only terminated when the entire disputed fortune disappeared in legal fees.

I think it was this case that basically did in the courts of equity and led to the importance of precedence.

Cheers,
Wol

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 22, 2020 1:18 UTC (Sun) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

> I don't like Dickens and don't know the story, but doesn't he have a lawsuit Jarndyce vs Jarndyce? This is based on a REAL case that lasted about 100 years and, like Jarndyce, only terminated when the entire disputed fortune disappeared in legal fees.

I was curious, so I looked it up. The real case lasted 117 years, but Bleak House (the book that has the Jarndyce case) was published only 55 years into it. Not even half way!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarndyce_and_Jarndyce#Real-...

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 22, 2020 17:22 UTC (Sun) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link]

Actually, it's a bit later in the UK - Chancery courts more or less disappear as an independent entity from 1873-1882 and the last vestiges disappear mostly in 1925 with the reform of the laws of land law, inheritance and trusts. Judge made law is still important in England and Wales in lower courts and in Scotland under a different legal system: the Supreme Court actions about Brexit were binding on all three jurisdictions because separate actions were brought in England and in Scotland.

/me used to be a trainee barrister and retains an interest in legal history and international law.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 20, 2020 21:23 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link] (3 responses)

Interpreting the law is what I meant by courts "filling in the missing words," which can be called writing law.

In both common law and civil law countries, courts only interpret law. You may be cynical and claim that a certain judge, out of corruption or incompetence has written new law instead of interpreting existing law, but that's a separate issue. That's not the system. A judge in a common law country does not say "I think everybody should provide a back door for law enforcement, so I'm going to fine you for not doing it." He says, "I think Congress has required a back door for law enforcement in this case, so I'm going to fine you for not doing it."

The difference between the role of courts in civil and common law jurisdictions is mostly a matter of degree. To me, the biggest difference between the two is that civil courts don't pay anywhere near as much attention to using the same interpretation in every case (stare decisis), which means they have a much freer hand than a common law judge in writing law. If you don't like powerful judges, a common law country is what you want.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 23, 2020 14:07 UTC (Mon) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (2 responses)

> In both common law and civil law countries, courts only interpret law.

Really? How do you explain the existence of Roe vs Wade? The legality of abortion in the US is based on a ruling by the Supreme Court. Why can't Congress simply pass a new law making it legal/illegal? Or the Mabo decision in Australia, where the court basically invented a new legal framework from whole cloth. Such things are impossible in a civil law system: the legislature creates law, not the courts. If the courts make a decision that the legislature doesn't agree with, it simply passes a law to override it.

Although, to prevent the wasting of time, the courts often ask the government what to do about corner cases not considered and use that to guide the ruling. In the next revision of the law these corner cases are written in and the ruling becomes redundant.

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 23, 2020 14:48 UTC (Mon) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> Really? How do you explain the existence of Roe vs Wade? The legality of abortion in the US is based on a ruling by the Supreme Court. Why can't Congress simply pass a new law making it legal/illegal?

The US Supreme Court didn't write new law with RvW; instead they ruled that the law being challeneged ran afoul of the rights laid down in the US Constitution, and was consequently unenforceable.

(Meanwhile, Congress and various States never stopped attempting to pass new laws that sidestep RvW. One's now up in front of the USSC)

Courts as corruptions of government

Posted Mar 23, 2020 15:04 UTC (Mon) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link]

In other words, the court was interpreting the US Constitution, one of the sources of law in the US.

As I said before, people may reasonably disagree that this was a correct interpretation of that law and was instead new law, but the point is that if so, that's a failure of the system, not an application of it. Common law doesn't allow judges to make new law from whole cloth. At no point in the detailed written decision in Roe v Wade does the court say, "We think abortion is fine, so we nullify any law that says otherwise."

The U.S. Congress does not have the power to modify the U.S. Constitution all by itself, but it could certainly initiate an amendment and if 3/4 of the states agreed that abortion is not fine, the Supreme Court would be overruled and would start upholding criminal convictions for having abortions.

One way to have a system where the courts have less power is not to have a constitution - the legislative branch's power is unlimited. Another is to have a constitution that can be amended by a quick majority vote of the people, which many US states have. But that's not a common law vs civil law issue.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 20, 2020 11:36 UTC (Fri) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link]

This kind of hyperbole does no-one any good. There are lots of examples where the US courts have restrained elites.

Bringing encryption restrictions in through the back door

Posted Mar 27, 2020 12:33 UTC (Fri) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link]

The international meetings related to this proposal may well be remembered more for their role in the initial spread of COVID-19 into the highest level of governments.


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