LEDE and OpenWrt
The OpenWrt project is perhaps the most widely known Linux-based distribution for home WiFi routers and access points; it was spawned from the source code of the now-famous Linksys WRT54G router more than 12 years ago. In early May, the OpenWrt user community was thrown into a fair amount of confusion when a group of core OpenWrt developers announced that they were starting a spin-off (or, perhaps, a fork) of OpenWrt to be named the Linux Embedded Development Environment (LEDE). It was not entirely clear to the public why the split was taking place—and the fact that the LEDE announcement surprised a few other OpenWrt developers suggested trouble within the team.
The LEDE announcement was sent on May 3 by Jo-Philipp Wich to both the
OpenWrt development list and the new LEDE development list. It
describes LEDE as "a reboot of the OpenWrt community
" and
as "a spin-off of the OpenWrt project
" seeking to create
an embedded-Linux development community "with a strong focus on
transparency, collaboration and decentralisation.
"
The rationale given for the reboot was that OpenWrt suffered from
longstanding issues that could not be fixed from within—namely,
regarding internal processes and policies. For instance, the
announcement said, the number
of developers is at an all-time low, but there is no process for
on-boarding new developers (and, it seems, no process for granting
commit access to new developers). The project infrastructure is
unreliable (evidently, server outages over the past year have caused
considerable strife within the project),
the announcement said, but internal disagreements and single points of
failure prevented fixing it. There is also a general lack of
"communication, transparency and coordination
" internally
and from the project to the outside world. Finally, a few technical
shortcomings were cited: inadequate testing, lack of regular builds,
and poor stability and documentation.
The announcement goes on to describe how the LEDE reboot will address these issues. All communication channels will be made available for public consumption, decisions will be made by project-wide votes, the merge policy will be more relaxed, and so forth. A more detailed explanation of the new project's policies can be found on the rules page at the LEDE site. Among other specifics, it says that there will be only one class of committer (that is, no "core developer" group with additional privileges), that simple majority votes will settle decisions, and that any infrastructure managed by the project must have at least three operators with administrative access. On the LEDE mailing list, Hauke Mehrtens added that the project will make an effort to have patches sent upstream—a point on which OpenWrt has been criticized in the past, especially where the kernel is concerned.
In addition to Wich, the announcement was co-signed by OpenWrt contributors John Crispin, Daniel Golle, Felix Fietkau, Mehrtens, Matthias Schiffer, and Steven Barth. It ends with an invitation for others interested in participating to visit the LEDE site.
Reactions and questions
One might presume that the LEDE organizers expected their announcement to be met with some mixture of positive and negative reactions. After all, a close reading of the criticisms of the OpenWrt project in the announcement suggests that there were some OpenWrt project members that the LEDE camp found difficult to work with (the "single points of failure" or "internal disagreements" that prevented infrastructure fixes, for instance).
And, indeed, there were negative responses. OpenWrt co-founder Mike Baker responded with some alarm, disagreeing with all of the
LEDE announcement's conclusions and saying "phrases such as a
'reboot' are both vague and misleading and the LEDE project failed to
identify its true nature.
" Around the same time, someone
disabled the @openwrt.org email aliases of those developers who signed
the LEDE announcement; when Fietkau objected, Baker replied that the accounts were "temporarily
disabled
" because "it's unclear if LEDE still represents
OpenWrt
". Imre Kaloz, another core OpenWrt member, wrote that
"the LEDE team created most of that [broken] status quo
"
in OpenWrt that it was now complaining about.
But the majority of the responses on the OpenWrt list expressed
confusion about the announcement. List members were not clear whether the
LEDE team was going to continue contributing to OpenWrt or not, nor
what the exact nature of the infrastructure and internal problems were
that led to the split. Baker's initial response lamented the lack of
public debate over the issues cited in the announcement: " In addition to the questions over the rationale of the new project,
some list subscribers expressed confusion as to whether LEDE was
targeting the same uses cases as OpenWrt, given the more
generic-sounding name of the new project. Furthermore, a number of
people, such as Roman Yeryomin, expressed
confusion as to why the issues demanded the departure of the LEDE
team, particularly given that, together, the LEDE group constituted
a majority of the active core OpenWrt developers. Some list
subscribers, like Michael Richardson, were even unclear on who would still be developing OpenWrt.
The LEDE team made a few attempts to further clarify their
position. In Fietkau's reply to Baker, he said that discussions about
proposed changes within the OpenWrt project tended to quickly turn
" This kind of single-point-of-failure thing has been going on for years,
with no significant progress on resolving it.
Neither Wich nor Fietkau pointed fingers at specific individuals,
although others on the list seemed to think that the infrastructure
and internal decision-making problems in OpenWrt came down to a few
people. Daniel Dickinson stated that:
On the other hand, Luka Perkov countered that many OpenWrt developers
wanted to switch from Subversion to Git, but that Fietkau was
responsible for blocking that change.
What does seem clear is that the OpenWrt project has been operating
with a governance structure that was not functioning as desired and, as a
result, personality conflicts were erupting and individuals were able
to disrupt or block proposed changes simply by virtue of there being
no well-defined process. Clearly, that is not a model that works well
in the long run.
On May 6, Crispin wrote to the
OpenWrt list in a new thread, attempting to reframe the LEDE project
announcement. It was not, he said, meant as a " Crispin's email did not seem to satisfy Kaloz, who insisted that Crispin (as release
manager) and Fietkau (as lead developer) could simply have made any
desirable changes within the OpenWrt project. But the discussion
thread has subsequently gone silent; whatever happens next on either
the LEDE or OpenWrt side remains to be seen.
For those still seeking further detail on what the LEDE team
regarded as problematic within OpenWrt, there is one more source of
information that can shed light on the issues. Prior to the public
announcement, the LEDE organizers spent several weeks hashing out
their plan, and IRC logs of the meetings have now been published.
Of particular interest is the March 30 meeting
that includes a detailed discussion of the project's goals.
Several specific complaints about OpenWrt's infrastructure are
included, such as the shortcomings of the project's Trac issue
tracker. It is swamped with incomplete bug reports and "me too"
comments, Wich said, and as a result, few committers make use of it.
In addition, people seem confused by the fact that bugs are also being
tracked on GitHub, making it unclear where issues ought to be discussed.
The IRC discussion also tackles the development process itself.
The LEDE team would like to implement several changes, starting with
the use of staging trees that get merged into the trunk during a
formal merge window, rather than the commit-directly-to-master
approach employed by OpenWrt. The project would also commit to
time-based releases and encourage user testing by only releasing binary
modules that have successfully been tested, by the community rather
than the core developers, on
actual hardware.
Finally, the IRC discussion does make it clear that the LEDE team's
intent was not to take OpenWrt by surprise with its announcement.
Crispin suggested that LEDE be " In an email, Fietkau added that the core OpenWrt developers had
been suffering from bottlenecks on tasks like
patch review and maintenance work that were preventing them from getting other work done—such as setting up
download mirrors or improving the build system. In just the first few days
after the LEDE announcement, he said, the team had managed to tackle
the mirror and build-system tasks, which had languished for years.
We really wanted to do something similar with the core development,
but based on our experience with trying to make bigger changes we felt
that we couldn't do this from within the OpenWrt project.
Fixing the infrastructure will reap other dividends, too, he said,
such as an improved system for managing the keys used to sign
releases. The team is considering a rule that imposes some conditions
on non-upstream patches, such as requiring a description of the patch
and an explanation of why it has not yet been sent upstream. He
also noted that many of the remaining OpenWrt developers have
expressed interest in joining LEDE, and that the parties involved are trying
to figure out if they will re-merge the projects.
One would hope that LEDE's flatter governance model and commitment to
better transparency will help it to find success in areas where
OpenWrt has struggled. For the time being, sorting out the
communication issues that plagued the initial announcement may prove
to be a major hurdle. If that process goes well, though, LEDE and
OpenWrt may find common ground and work together in the future. If
not, then the two teams may each be forced to move forward with fewer
resources than they had before, which may not be what developers or
users want to see.We
recognize the current OpenWrt project suffers from a number of
issues
", but "
we hoped we had an opportunity to
discuss and attempt to fix
" them. Baker concluded:
Clarifications
toxic
", thus resulting in no progress. Furthermore:
hostile or
disruptive
" act, but to make a clean break from the
dysfunctional structures of OpenWrt and start fresh. The matter
"does not boil down to one single event, one single person or
one single flamewar
", he said. "
We wanted to
split with the errors we have done ourselves in the past and the wrong
management decision that were made at times.
" Crispin also
admitted that the announcement had not been handled well,
saying that the LEDE team "messed up the politics of the launch
".
Intent
semi public
" at first and
gradually be made more public. Wich noted that he wanted LEDE to be
"neutral, professional and welcoming to OpenWrt to keep the door
open for a future reintegration
". The launch does not seem to
have gone well on that front, which is unfortunate.
Posted May 11, 2016 21:57 UTC (Wed)
by jnareb (subscriber, #46500)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 11, 2016 22:20 UTC (Wed)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link]
Posted May 12, 2016 17:56 UTC (Thu)
by mbm (guest, #108744)
[Link] (6 responses)
It is hoped that the two groups can resolve their issues and work together, but labeling it as "expressed an interest in joining LEDE" is a gross mischaracterization.
Posted May 13, 2016 4:18 UTC (Fri)
by rahvin (guest, #16953)
[Link] (5 responses)
Would it have been better if they just finally got tired of the problems and simply walked away from any development? Because I don't think that would be better. I wish both sides luck, but LEDE deserves credit for not just breaking out of a situation they were unhappy in but moving on with open source contributions rather than just stop contributing. It's unfortunate that this took forking but I'd rather they fork than the project die.
Maybe they should have talked about it before doing it, but if your post is how that response would have went I don't blame them for not telling people outside their group.
Posted May 13, 2016 6:29 UTC (Fri)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted May 13, 2016 7:03 UTC (Fri)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 19, 2016 4:55 UTC (Thu)
by fest3er (guest, #60379)
[Link]
p doctor
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt
LEDE and OpenWrt