WordPress retaliation impacts community
It is too early to say what the outcome will be in the ongoing fight between Automattic and WP Engine, but the WordPress community at large is already the loser. Automattic founder and CEO Matt Mullenweg has been using his control of the project, and the WordPress.org infrastructure, to punish WP Engine and remove some dissenting contributors from discussion channels. Most recently, Mullenweg has instituted a hostile fork of a WP Engine plugin and the forked plugin is replacing the original via WordPress updates.
In the beginning of the Automattic and WP Engine spat, many people hoped that the companies would ratchet down the hostilities—or at least leave it to lawyers to sort out while leaving the larger community out of it. Those hopes have gone unrealized.
WP Engine did try to opt for the legal-only route. The day after the "reprieve" on the WordPress.org ban ended, October 2, WP Engine filed a 62‑page complaint against Automattic and Mullenweg personally, and asked for a jury trial. The suit's claims include contractual interference, computer fraud (for blocking its access to WordPress.org), attempted extortion, libel, and slander. In addition, the suit asks for declaratory judgment that WP Engine is not infringing on or diluting the WordPress, WooCommerce, and other trademarks that Automattic named in its cease‑and‑desist letter.
That is, of course, a move that was unlikely to rebuild any burned bridges between Automattic and WP Engine. It was predictable that the WordPress.org ban would remain in place, that Automattic would respond to the suit, and perhaps countersue WP Engine. However, to date, there has been no indication of a countersuit or response to WP Engine's lawsuit. Instead, Mullenweg is using other means to cause problems for WP Engine—and those tactics have spilled over to the wider WordPress community in troubling ways.
The checkbox
Participating in the development of WordPress is not realistically
possible without logging into the site. Using WordPress.org is
mandatory for those who would like to contribute and update
plugins, access the
WordPress Trac (bug tracker) instance, and more. On October 9, a
new checkbox was added to the account login form on WordPress.org
which reads "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way,
financially or otherwise.
" If the box is left unchecked, users
will get a prompt to check the box if they wish to proceed.
Naturally, many contributors had questions about this new
checkbox, since its wording is ambiguous and any possible consequences
are murky. It seems clear it would apply to those employed by
WP Engine, but just how far does "financially and
otherwise
" go? Does this apply, for example, to employees of the
many companies that host their clients' web sites on WP Engine?
Customers with a subscription to one of WP Engine's services? A
number of contributors have sought answers about this
policy in the WordPress Slack, with disappointing results. A handful
have reported being banned from the Slack instance after these conversations, either due to
pressing for answers or questioning Mullenweg's leadership.
Javier Casares shared that his account was deactivated after he asked a series
of questions in a Slack
thread started by Colin Stewart. (Note that one needs to have a
WordPress.org account, and be signed in, to request an account on the
WordPress Slack.) In the thread, Mullenweg said that the value of the
checkbox is not stored, but refused to clarify what qualifies as an
affiliation with WP Engine. He advised those who had questions to
"consult a lawyer
".
Casares said that most people agree that WP Engine should contribute more to WordPress, but that using WordPress.org as part of the battle is counterproductive. He asked on Slack that the language be changed to indicate a user does not work for WP Engine, but that suggestion was not taken up.
Pick a side
Another participant, Terence Eden, asked on Slack whether he could send pull requests via GitHub if he was affiliated with WP Engine. After an exchange with Mullenweg that was less than helpful, Eden replied:
I've never seen anyone spread so much FUD about their own project before. I started out as sympathetic to your cause against WP Engine. But your behaviour has driven me - and many other good people - away.
He later reported on
Mastodon that his account was deactivated.
Andrew Hutchings, a contributor who works on WordPress as part of
his work with the MariaDB
Foundation, participated in the conversation
as well. He wondered
on Slack
how many individual contributors could afford a lawyer to advise about
the checkbox and added "I work for a different Foundation, one that
definitely cannot afford a lawyer for me to contribute.
" He wrote on
his blog about being banned and said that he just wanted to work on
the project:
I think I speak for many in the WordPress community / ecosystem when I say that we don't want to take sides in this battle. We don't want to be forced to take sides via a checkbox. We just want to get work done, to improve WordPress for everyone.
That may not be an option. During the
checkbox discussion in the #meta Slack channel Alex Sirota said:
"Do you not understand what is happening here? It's pretty simple
in my opinion: you have to take a side.
" Stewart said that if that
was the intention, then Mullenweg could say so himself. Shortly after,
Mullenweg said,
"I want you all to be informed and involved. Not to stay on the
sidelines.
" Sirota's account has also been deactivated now, though it is not clear
whether he was banned or deactivated the account himself.
Mullenweg had also asked Automattic employees to pick a side, shortly
after banning WP Engine from WordPress.org. He wrote on October 3
that Automattic had extended an "Alignment Offer
" to its
employees. The company provided a buyout package of $30,000 or six
months of salary (whichever was higher) to employees who wanted to
leave because they disagreed with Mullenweg's actions. Employees who
accepted the buyout were immediately terminated and are not eligible
for rehire. According to the post, 159 people—8.4% of the
company—accepted the offer.
Advanced Custom Fields
WordPress's popularity has a lot to do with its plugins and themes. A vanilla WordPress installation is missing a lot of features that one might want or need to run a web site: backups, commerce features, statistics, contact forms, search-engine optimization (SEO), managing URL redirects, or adding additional content types to WordPress.
A large ecosystem has sprung up around WordPress to offer services via those plugins, paid versions of plugins with additional functionality, and paid themes to simplify site design. In turn, that helps solidify WordPress's place as the most popular content-management system (CMS) on the web.
WP Engine produces popular plugin called Advanced Custom Fields (ACF), which has more than two million installs through WordPress.org. It allows developers to add extra content fields (called custom fields) to WordPress's edit screens. This might be used, for example, as part of adding a date picker or an interface to create photo galleries for a site. ACF is, in turn, used by or in conjunction with a large number of other WordPress plugins such as Advanced Forms for ACF and WPML for translating WordPress sites.
The base ACF plugin is free, but it also has a paid version ("ACF Pro") with a yearly subscription. Both are available under the GPLv2, but users must pay for access to updates on the Pro version and those come directly from WP Engine.
On September 28, Mullenweg asked
on Slack whether ACF Pro should be included in WordPress core,
the components and functionality included in a default install of
WordPress. That drew mixed responses in the channel. Some users noted
that the ability to add custom fields was long overdue, but others had qualms
about taking over ACF Pro "out of spite
". Richard Korthuis asked
what kind of message it would send to other developers who create paid
plugins: "No matter what you think about WP Engine and the whole
dispute, this [sends] developers the wrong message and would prevent
future investments in new plugins
".
In a now-deleted
Tweet, Automattic announced on October 5, a Saturday, that it had "responsibly disclosed
a vulnerability
" in ACF to WP Engine. The company did not provide
further details. John Blackbourn, the WordPress core security team
lead, said
that Automattic had breached the Intigriti
Code of Conduct by "irresponsibly announcing
" the
vulnerability publicly. Intigriti is a company that runs bug-bounty programs
for companies, including
WP Engine.
On October 7, WP Engine announced a
security release of the plugin. The vulnerability itself seems to be
minor, according to the release notes. It is not a flaw that can be
exploited remotely and it only impacts "the unlikely
scenario
" where a user with administrative privileges tries to
attack other administrative users, or tries to gain super-admin
privileges on a multi-site installation of WordPress. So far few other
details on the vulnerability beyond that have been provided. Another XZ backdoor it is not.
Because its developers are now blocked from WordPress.org, WP Engine had to provide its fix to the WordPress Security team to have it uploaded to the plugin directory. There are also instructions on updating the plugin manually to receive updates directly from WP Engine.
ACF fork
Mullenweg made an announcement
on October 12, another Saturday, "on behalf of the WordPress
security team
" that ACF was being forked as Secure Custom
Fields (SCF) under point 18
of the plugin
directory guidelines. That part of the guidelines states, in part,
that WordPress.org may "remove developer access to a plugin in lieu
of a new, active, developer
" and "make changes to a plugin,
without developer consent, in the interest of public
safety
". According to the post this move was "a rare and
unusual situation brought on by WP Engine's legal attacks
".
Automattic has not merely forked the ACF code and made it available under a new name to compete with WP Engine. That might raise a few eyebrows, but it would probably be considered fair game by most observers.
Instead, it has forked the code and taken over the plugin's entry,
including all of its reviews, in the WordPress.org catalog. The new
plugin is being substituted in place of ACF for all of the users who have
installed it previously. According to the announcement on
WordPress.org, sites that auto-update plugins will receive the SCF
plugin automatically. Some site owners may be unaware that the plugin
has been silently replaced. According to a comment by
Mullenweg on Hacker News on October 14, there have already
been 225k downloads of the new plugin, and he estimated "at least 60%
of the sites with auto-upgrade on and using .org for updates
" have
been moved to the fork.
This is not the first time a company has taken control of a package distributed through a central repository, though it is rare. The left-pad incident in 2016, for example, saw npm, Inc. restore left-pad to the Node.js package repository after its developer, Azer Koçulu, removed it. That move, however, was intended to reduce disruption to the Node.js ecosystem: the removal had broken builds for thousands of projects that had included the package, and Koçulu had effectively abandoned it.
The takeover of ACF's place in the WordPress directory, on the
other hand, is a punitive move by Automattic against another company
that reaches beyond WordPress.org's infrastructure into millions of
WordPress installs. Web developer Charles Fulton wrote
about the incident and said that this is "a profoundly destabilizing action for the WordPress
plugin ecosystem
"; he wondered if he needed to worry about updates
to core WordPress that might interfere with ACF Pro.
WPGraphQL brought into the fold
Users of ACF Pro that depend on the WPGraphQL and WPGraphQL for Advanced Custom
Fields plugins may have real cause to be concerned that Automattic
will look to break compatibility for ACF. WPGraphQL
provides a GraphQL
schema and API for WordPress sites and is a popular plugin to
use in conjunction with ACF. Jason Bahl, the maintainer of the plugin, announced
on October 7 that he was leaving WP Engine to join
Automattic. Additionally, he said that WPGraphQL is becoming a
"canonical plugin
" for WordPress.
The concept of canonical plugins is loosely defined, but Mullenweg described them in 2022 as official plugins that are the first choice for a type of functionality, but too niche to be included in the core distribution. With WPGraphQL development under Automattic's roof, it seems unlikely that compatibility with ACF will be a priority.
Scott Kingsley Clark, who has been involved in a project to bring a
fields API into the WordPress core, announced
on October 13 that he was stepping down from contributing to
WordPress core. The fields API
project on GitHub has been archived with a goodbye notice that
states that it pains him to stop but that he is "done making excuses for
Matt's actions and will not associate myself with core any
longer
". He added
on Mastodon.social that he was going to remain part of the WordPress
community overall, and continue working on the Pods plugin.
What next?
What happens next, what Mullenweg will do next, is anyone's guess. Mullenweg's vendetta against WP Engine has spilled over into the community in a way that can't easily be ignored or avoided. His leadership of the project is being repeatedly called into question by contributors, users, and outside observers. That will spill over, if it hasn't already, into the wider commercial ecosystem and have serious consequences for plugin creators, creative agencies, and hosting providers who have invested a lot into WordPress.
More contributors are likely to step away, whether they do so publicly or simply drift away and find other things to do with their time. Quite a few users on social networks have commented that they would no longer recommend WordPress and are looking for alternatives. A fork, in addition to ClassicPress, seems almost inevitable.
There is a legitimate conversation to be had, or continued, about the commercialization of open-source projects by companies that do little to sustain open-source software but reap its benefits and pull revenue away from the companies that do put in the work. That conversation has been completely eclipsed by Mullenweg's actions to punish WP Engine.
Mullenweg the "mad king"
Armin Ronacher, creator of the Flask web framework for Python and participant in launching the Open Source Pledge, has some interesting thoughts on the topic of mixing money and open source in light of the ongoing WordPress crisis:
Is it a wise [idea] to mix Open Source and money? Maybe not. Yet I also believe it's something that is just a reality we need to navigate. Today there are some projects too small to get any funding (xz) and there are projects large enough to find some way to sustain by funneling money to it (Rails, WordPress).
He observes that he has seen too many
people in open source struggle "one way or another
" as a direct
or indirect result of work in open source. He says Mullenweg, like
other creators of open-source projects, feels wronged by seeing others
find financial success from his project even though WordPress is
uncommonly successful "in terms of impact, success, and financial
return for its creator
". Mullenweg's actions, Ronacher said,
"have alienated many who would otherwise support him. He's turning into a 'mad
king'
".
That is deeply unfortunate, because the questions about sustainability of open-source projects, and who profits from them versus who produces them, are in need of addressing. Instead of having that conversation, Mullenweg has put questions about governance, centralized software distribution, and software supply chains at the forefront.
After decades of being a poster child for the goodness of open source, WordPress is becoming a case study in the dangers of the company-owned project model. Instead of being the safe choice, WordPress is starting to be seen as the risky one—and that perception may impact open source as a whole.
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:21 UTC (Mon)
by crlf (guest, #25122)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:49 UTC (Mon)
by jzb (editor, #7867)
[Link] (4 responses)
You're referring to this post, I'm guessing? I had missed it or it came out around the time I hit publish - not sure.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 8:50 UTC (Tue)
by geert (subscriber, #98403)
[Link]
Posted Oct 15, 2024 9:04 UTC (Tue)
by jamielinux (subscriber, #82303)
[Link] (2 responses)
But for anyone else reading, as helpfully pointed out by someone on HN, it's still available on Bing cache: https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=https%3a%2f%2fma.tt%2f2...
Posted Oct 15, 2024 9:22 UTC (Tue)
by knewt (subscriber, #32124)
[Link]
And showing roughly when it went walkies as well
Posted Oct 15, 2024 11:10 UTC (Tue)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link]
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:51 UTC (Mon)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Oct 14, 2024 21:33 UTC (Mon)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (1 responses)
dhh is David Heinemeier Hansson of Ruby on Rails fame, and he wrote a post that was pretty critical of Automattic and Matt Mullenweg
Posted Oct 15, 2024 11:28 UTC (Tue)
by ballombe (subscriber, #9523)
[Link]
If indeed Automattic has sold its share of WP Engine, then surely the buyer should be considered to have contributed
dhh post ends by
This seems a apt summary.
Posted Oct 14, 2024 22:27 UTC (Mon)
by eean (subscriber, #50420)
[Link]
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:40 UTC (Mon)
by NightMonkey (subscriber, #23051)
[Link] (4 responses)
Open Source does in no way guarantee *anyone* money, revenue or profit. Or fame. Or respect. Or a career. It just means what the license says, and that's it. (CLAs undermine the spirit as well.) If you are competing for business and profit, you have many choices in licensing your software. F/OSS may or may not be the right choice.
This article seems very relevant: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/how-open-source-foun...
Posted Oct 14, 2024 21:04 UTC (Mon)
by willy (subscriber, #9762)
[Link] (3 responses)
I did about 1/3 of the spec work for NVMe 1.0. I barely even got an internal "attaboy" reward. The Windows team got some Divisional Recognition Award for writing the Windows driver (this is a fairly big deal at Intel). Some people who contributed a few lines to the spec founded a company based on NVMe that got sold for $1bn.
You can't get upset about these things. Nobody owes you anything unless you have a contract.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 11:07 UTC (Tue)
by Heretic_Blacksheep (guest, #169992)
[Link]
Gatekept projects like this one should already have this big blinking sign over them that reads something like "You don't own this star, hitch your only wagon to it at your peril."
I'm unsympathetic with all sides, including the Word Press users, for the aforementioned gigantic red flag waving in the storm winds.
Use such products with the ongoing understanding that wagon's spars can be cut loose and destroyed at any given time and plan accordingly.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 13:52 UTC (Tue)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link] (1 responses)
This is an area where software engineering unions could help by facilitating an adult/peer conversation between the creators of value and the managers/takers of value as to how much each party should be skimming off the top for their personal wealth. There should be formal systems in place, like standard contracts, to ensure that at least some proportional part of the value makes it back to the people who create it and isn't _entirely_ captured by low-value middlemen (even if it mostly is ;-), $100 gift cards are probably not sufficient.
Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent. At least Automattic was willing to spend $30k/head to buy out 150+ employees who think their leadership is nuts.
Posted Oct 17, 2024 5:43 UTC (Thu)
by kn (guest, #124511)
[Link]
Should employees cover parts of company losses as well? If not that would just punish entrepreneurship and risk-taking. If people want a bigger piece of the pie, there are stock options. Most people don't like risk.
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:43 UTC (Mon)
by yeltsin (guest, #171611)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:50 UTC (Mon)
by jzb (editor, #7867)
[Link]
That's what we're here for. Thanks for the kind words!
Posted Oct 14, 2024 19:49 UTC (Mon)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Oct 14, 2024 21:10 UTC (Mon)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (1 responses)
That statement about use of the Rails trademarks pretty much states the LAW's stance on the matter, not dhh's. For Mullenweg to slag dhh off for merely re-stating the law doesn't give you much confidence in Mullenweg's grasp of reality ...
Cheers,
Posted Oct 15, 2024 11:41 UTC (Tue)
by Heretic_Blacksheep (guest, #169992)
[Link]
I skimmed DHH's opinion, and it seems reasoned and sane. But don't forget he's a layman, not a lawyer.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 1:57 UTC (Tue)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link] (5 responses)
What bothered me the most about WP was a seemingly random incoherent system for a newbie. Too many themes, and the only differentiation was their marketing jargon ("A free multi-diverse fresh re-imagining of ...") which told me nothing, and no sample pages to try them out without downloading and installing and possibly paying. I don't have the time or patience to try dozens of themes, especially when I know so little to start with, and there seemed to be thousands with content-free descriptions.
But I had no idea there was this much drama going on behind the scenes. It seems in hindsight to match the confusing mess I saw, which probably is fine once you've climbed that steep learning curve. I was also confused by having multiple web site sources, which I now realize WP Engine didn't help any.
Mullenweg sounds like a disaster. Maybe the community can sort things out, maybe not. Maybe someday my Substack will need more and I'll look again. But I won't do it as long as Mullenweg is fouling the waters.
Posted Oct 24, 2024 2:50 UTC (Thu)
by rmunn (guest, #40618)
[Link] (4 responses)
The analogy isn't perfect here, because keeping products on shelves costs a story money, even if it's only opportunity cost from not having a better-selling product on that shelf space. So if nobody buys one variety of deodorant for months and months, the store will move it to the 75% off bin and give that shelf space to a more popular variety that they'll make money on. Whereas with Wordpress themes, plugins, etc., their overall size is so small (a handful of megabytes in most cases) that the cost of storage is tiny; there's no limited "shelf space" like there is in a store. So even if nobody downloads one theme or plugin for months and months, it won't be removed, unlike the deodorant varieties at the store.
But for nearly all of those themes and plugins, *somebody* is using them (in fact, probably many people are). So while the choice can be overwhelming to a newbie (unless someone has written recommendations -- "start with this setup, and choose from these three themes. You can add others later if you want."), there's a reason for it to exist.
It's true, though, that themes without sample pages or preview images are of VERY limited value. Not just to newbies, either.
Posted Oct 24, 2024 7:18 UTC (Thu)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link] (2 responses)
Well, yeah, but on the other hand there's the harm (and, demonstrably, loss of sales) caused when the customer stands in front of that shelf for minutes and then leaves without a deodorant because there's simply overwhelmingly too much choice here.
Personally I don't want a deodorant with a favorite scent. I want one that makes me stop looking+smelling like a sweaty pig, period end of discussion. Nice scents are a separate concept, to be found three aisles over.
Yes this analogy extends to web frameworks/backends; my choice there happens to be Flask (or rather Quart-Trio, its sane-async-ized pseudo-fork).
Posted Oct 24, 2024 13:21 UTC (Thu)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (1 responses)
I know there are supply chain issues which could still be causing problems, but the variety of choice in supermarkets over here has dropped dramatically. My personal example is coffee (which was declining pre-Covid), but since then the range has been cut back sharply - and many supermarket brands disappeared completely for a while. They have come back, but far smaller than before. And tea - I want to buy some Gunpowder, but most of the traditional blends have disappeared. There's a decent choice of fruit teas, but not old-fashioned traditional.
And a lot of brands now seem exclusive to just one or two retailers, where you used to be able to get them everywhere.
Cheers,
Posted Nov 3, 2024 23:10 UTC (Sun)
by sammythesnake (guest, #17693)
[Link]
There were *seven varieties* of Rooibos alone, FFS. No lavender, though...
Posted Oct 24, 2024 11:40 UTC (Thu)
by edgewood (subscriber, #1123)
[Link]
A plugin that stops doing that will not show as compatible with the current version in listings, and many security plugins will warn users of those plugins.
So makers of those plugins must invest some amount of time on an ongoing basis.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 5:09 UTC (Tue)
by zorro (subscriber, #45643)
[Link] (13 responses)
Posted Oct 15, 2024 5:58 UTC (Tue)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link]
Posted Oct 15, 2024 6:37 UTC (Tue)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link] (1 responses)
And sorry but if blocking a single company from updates and kicking out their widely-used ACF plugin isn't unfair practice, I don't know what else that term should mean.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 14:02 UTC (Tue)
by kleptog (subscriber, #1183)
[Link]
Whether there's actually any legal recourse is a different question.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 8:16 UTC (Tue)
by taladar (subscriber, #68407)
[Link]
Posted Oct 15, 2024 13:44 UTC (Tue)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link]
Posted Oct 15, 2024 15:14 UTC (Tue)
by Paf (subscriber, #91811)
[Link]
Posted Oct 24, 2024 9:37 UTC (Thu)
by davidgerard (guest, #100304)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Oct 24, 2024 11:59 UTC (Thu)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (5 responses)
You're confusing "Software" with the "Service" of providing software.
Absent a contract stating otherwise, *nobody* is owed *anything* beyond the source code they have in their hands *right now*. They are not entitled to new versions of said software. They are not entitled to add-ons ("plugins", "themes", etc) written by other people. They are not entitled to have their own add-ons or software hosted by someone else, for free. They are not entittled to a collaboration platform provided by someone else, for free. See where I'm going here?
They are free to create their own modified version of that software. They are not entitled to give it the same name (due to trademark law).
Ultimately the only property right is the right to exclude others from what is legally yours. Mullenweg is fully within his legal (and moral!) rights to do what he is doing for (nearly) any reason whatsoever.
Posted Oct 24, 2024 13:28 UTC (Thu)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (4 responses)
Have you heard of estoppel?
Have you heard of breaking your promises?
Everything seems to have gone quiet on the lawsuit front, but basically that's the essence of the lawsuit - that Mullenweg knowingly mislead other people in the ecosystem, and that he broke a whole bunch of promises. That's definitely not moral.
There's also the allegation he was running the 50?1?3?(c) for his own personal benefit, which is or should be illegal.
Okay, you never know how a lawsuit is going to go, but that one appears to have legs ...
If someone can launch a CREDIBLE lawsuit against you, I would hesitate to describe you as "fully within your rights" ...
Cheers,
Posted Oct 24, 2024 13:39 UTC (Thu)
by jzb (editor, #7867)
[Link]
Things are not entirely quiet on the lawsuit front. WPE is seeking a shorter timeline for emergency relief, and Automattic/Mullenweg have until 30 October to file opposition to the motion for preliminary injunction. There are some additional filing deadlines with a hearing set for 26 November on the preliminary injunction. That might be worth covering when it happens, we'll see. AFAIK (and it's possible I've missed something) Automattic still hasn't filed any sort of counter-suit.
Posted Oct 24, 2024 14:14 UTC (Thu)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (2 responses)
"I revoke permission for you to use my property" does not rise to the level of estoppel.
Meanwhile, a "promise" is not a legally binding contract.
> There's also the allegation he was running the 50?1?3?(c) for his own personal benefit, which is or should be illegal.
Key word -- Allegation. The truth of that is for the courts to decide, if anyone cares enough to file suit over that issue.
> If someone can launch a CREDIBLE lawsuit against you, I would hesitate to describe you as "fully within your rights" ...
*shrug* At the end of the day, absent a written contract to the contrary (which doesn't appear to exist, or they'd be waving it around from the yardarm) nobody has any inherent right to indefinitely receive any services from wordpress.org, or its owner, for free or otherwise.
F/OSS (and the GPLv2 specifically in this instance) grants you the right to use/alter the software you have in your hands right now, nothing more. No warranty, no support, no updates, no hosting/collaboration platform, nothing. And nobody has attempted to take that away from any wordpress user (or hoster).
Posted Oct 24, 2024 16:21 UTC (Thu)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link] (1 responses)
Well. Not in general, no. But in this case?
In the Real World, if you have allowed people for *years* to, say, freely cross your property in order to get from A to B, suddenly erecting a roadblock is legally questionable, esp. if the roadblock only applies to people with green eyes.
Also in this case (blocking access to a service, not a road) there's an implied promise of No Roadblocks, which can be inferred from the fact that the property in question belongs to a tax-exempt entity that's been created with the explicit purpose of providing said access.
Posted Oct 24, 2024 16:53 UTC (Thu)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link]
In this case? Still no.
> In the Real World, if you have allowed people for *years* to, say, freely cross your property in order to get from A to B, suddenly erecting a roadblock is legally questionable,
Unless there is an "public right of way" on said property, still no. This can be explicit (ie listed on the deed) or implicit (due to some law that requires it). Neither applies in this case.
> Also in this case (blocking access to a service, not a road) there's an implied promise of No Roadblocks,
No such promise existed. Again, they are not obligated to provide these services to the public at large, or anybody they choose to not associate with [1] [2].
> which can be inferred from the fact that the property in question belongs to a tax-exempt entity that's been created with the explicit purpose of providing said access.
Except... that's not the case here. But even if it was, that still doesn't mean they are legally obligated to provide access to everyone, for free, in perpetuity.
Mind you, I'm not saying that Mullenweg's actions are necessarily _wise_, but legally speaking, it is his [near-]absolute legal right to do so.
[1] Except where law demands -- eg if providing a service to the public as a whole, one can't deny service based on race, gender, and a handful of other legally protected classes. Eye color is not one of them.
Posted Oct 15, 2024 14:15 UTC (Tue)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link]
I think there is still room to have a conversation about governance and how when you have multiple large competing companies who profit and collaborate on an open-source software platform there needs to be an *independent* Foundation which acts as a mediator for their competing interests and has sustainability of the platform as their primary goal, rather than the private profit of any one of the organizations. The independence of Fedora from Redhat, the Linux Foundation and its relationship with Intel, the FAANG, Samsung, Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Cisco, etc. etc. which prevents them from knifing each other in the back, and many others is a main thing that WP lacks, MM's insistence on personally controlling WordPress.org and Foundation as well as Automattic is what's creating a conflict of interest, the large community of commercial vendors who depend on the ecosystem don't have representation and a formal way to mediate what should be a private spat between Automattic and WP Engine. If WordPress.org isn't having the cost of running the package repository properly accounted for they can lobby both Automattic and WP Engine and others to defray costs, maybe setup tiering where small individual instances don't pay but hosting companies with more than X number of installs are asked to contribute something toward maintenance.
There seem to be a number of people who view FOSS as a free resource to strip mine for value with no thought about contributing to maintenance and sustainability (the oldest license, the GPL, has obligations for those who sell it that encourage maintenance and sustainability), that FOSS developers are basically employees they don't have to pay, rather than partners who share a goal. Maybe that's why "open-core" products tend not to foster much of a community, but shared infrastructure, that wouldn't stand alone as a product, does more often.
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
ugh
''
It's even more outrageous that Automattic has chosen trademarks as their method to get their "Al Capone" when up until 2018 they were part owners of WP Engine before selling their stake to Silver Lake!
''
to WordPress by buying them.
"But I suspect Automattic wants to have their cake and eat it too. "
ugh
Burning bridges...
Burning bridges...
Burning bridges...
Burning bridges...
Burning bridges...
Great stuff
Great stuff
is this in character?
is this in character?
Wol
is this in character?
Glad I decided to not use WP
Glad I decided to not use WP
Glad I decided to not use WP
Unfortunately the deos without scent get somewhat buried, if not crowded out outright, by the 23-variety brands.
Glad I decided to not use WP
Wol
Availability of Tea Varieties
Glad I decided to not use WP
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
Wol
Tough, but that's business
Tough, but that's business
> Have you heard of breaking your promises?
Tough, but that's business
> Meanwhile, a "promise" is not a legally binding contract.
Tough, but that's business
> Well. Not in general, no. But in this case?
[2] I routinely block large swaths of the internet from accessing my internet-facing servers/services. I've also removed/blocked individual accounts numerous times. Should I not be allowed to do this?
Governance of FOSS when powering a profitable commercial ecosystem