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The endless browser wars

By Jonathan Corbet
January 25, 2021
The term "browser wars" typically refers to Microsoft's attempts to dominate the World Wide Web with its Internet Explorer browser in the 1990s. That effort was thwarted by antitrust efforts and the rise of the free browser now known as Firefox; ever since, the web has been defined by free software. Or so some may have thought. In the 2020s, the browser wars continue with the growing dominance of Chrome and, it would seem, the imminent removal of Chromium from many Linux distributions.

Chrome, of course, is Google's proprietary browser, bundled with Android and widely installed on other systems as well. The Chrome browser, though, is built on top of Chromium, which is an open-source project; in theory, anybody can build Chromium and get a browser of nearly equal capability, minus perhaps some proprietary DRM modules. In practice, Chromium users are a tiny fraction of the browser-using population, while Chrome becomes increasingly dominant. Current estimates suggest that 60-70% of web users are running on Chrome.

Chromium users do exist, though, and many Linux distributions package a version of the Chromium browser; it's a way to deal with the increasing number of "only works on Chrome" web sites without having to run proprietary code.

Or so it seems. Much of what appears to be Chrome (or Chromium) functionality is, in truth, provided by servers in Google's data centers. These include bookmark synchronization, the safe-browsing feature, search suggestions, spell-checking, and more. These features are not part of Chromium, but Google has long provided API keys for distributors of Chromium builds to use, ensuring that Chromium users had equal access to them.

That era is coming to an end, though. On January 15, the Chromium blog carried this brief notice that, as of March 15, non-Chrome builds of Chromium would lose access to these APIs. The loss of the bookmark-synchronization API, in particular, has drawn a fair amount of attention, but there are quite a few others that, it seems, will be restricted as well. After that date, users wanting to use those features will have to run Chrome to do so.

In other words, as of March 15, Chromium-based browsers will become rather less capable than they were the day before; this will reduce the value of Chromium to many of its users. Some of them will certainly throw in the towel and just install Chrome instead. Anticipating this, distributors are already wondering whether packaging Chromium (evidently not the easiest of tasks) is still worth the effort. Longtime Fedora developer Tom Callaway, for example, posted a Twitter thread in which he said: "I am seriously reconsidering whether there is any value in a crippled version of Chromium remaining in Fedora/EPEL".

This concern goes far beyond Fedora. The openSUSE community is currently discussing whether shipping Chromium still makes sense. The Arch Linux Chromium maintainer has stated his intent to drop the package if Chromium cannot be made to work with services like synchronization. Eric Hameleers, who provides Chromium packages for Slackware, doesn't want to continue if this change causes users to switch to something else. And so on.

There is, of course, an alternative to dropping Chromium that Callaway hinted at: "The official Chrome API keys which will permit this usage have been known since 2013 (they're embedded in every Chrome binary). It would be terrible if everyone used them instead." Taking that approach has been discussed on some distribution lists, but it seems unlikely that anybody will try it. It is an uncertain path, in that Google could invalidate the keys — though that would involve force-upgrading a lot of Chrome users. But it's even more uncertain in a legal sense; there are likely to be few volunteers to find out how Google would respond to such a move among the established distributors.

The unhappiness emanating from Chromium users who are about to lose features is understandable. But this move on Google's part is just highlighting a situation that has existed for years already: you might use Chromium as a way of avoiding proprietary software, but if you use Chromium with features like synchronization, that objective has not been met. Chromium has taken a path similar to Android's; there is a core built with free software, but getting its full functionality requires accepting layers of proprietary code on top of it. The fact that said code is running on a remote server somewhere does not really change that situation.

Many of us run free software — and avoid proprietary software — because we want to remain in control of our systems. Free software can be counted on to not disappear at inopportune times; proprietary software works at the whim of its owner and has no such guarantee. The stripping of functionality from Chromium builds is just another example of an owner indulging a whim and taking away features that they no longer wish to make available.

Meanwhile, smug Firefox users are able to use Firefox Sync with no impending interruption in service. It is worth noting that this service, too, could be withdrawn at any time, but Firefox at least allows the use of alternative servers, so concerned users need not be dependent on the continued existence and good will of Mozilla. The server-side code is available for anybody wanting to take that approach.

The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. The creators of web sites have responded by not caring about Firefox; having to retry broken web sites in Chrome is a ritual that many Firefox users have had to get used to. It's not surprising that users give up and just run Chrome from the outset.

This is not a great trajectory. A lot of effort went into wresting the web from a proprietary browser; we should really know better than to allow ourselves to get into that situation again. Ironically, Google might have helped in this regard by stripping some non-free components from Chromium; users will now be more aware of their exposure and might just be more motivated to support a free alternative. That all depends on fully free browsers remaining viable, though, and that is unlikely to happen if we all just give up and run Chrome.


to post comments

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:14 UTC (Mon) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] (23 responses)

Without denying the usefulness of features like syncing, this reaction from the distribution Chromium maintainers seems rather over the top. They really think it's not a worthwhile browser if it doesn't include syncing? It still loads all the websites, and still saves its own bookmarks.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:25 UTC (Mon) by ju3Ceemi (subscriber, #102464) [Link]

I agree

All those features are linked to, as the blog posted, "their Google Account", obviously people know that they are related to Google

Also, removing that package from the distribution will force people in google's hand : if I cannot get a browser from the distribution I trust, what should I do ? Get it from google, or from whatever dark and unknown website I found on the internet ?

I bet removing those features won't have a huge impact on users.
Removing the packages will.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:56 UTC (Mon) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] (13 responses)

I don't think of it as an over-reaction. This is not an easy package to build. It requires a LOT of work every release to just to compile, figure out what was changed, and what is needed to make it work this time with the rules of the operating system. What packages do you need to include this time, what items are bundled in and what is the license review for each one. Then it is getting it to compile on whatever architectures your operating system supports and see the 8 hour build time crash at 7 hours 50 minutes for some new reason. Then finding out that as it is recommended to be built that it doesn't actually render text for some reason but if you do the builds differnetly it does.

Then you are the person who gets every 'bug' report about bookmarks, etc not working. People see bugzilla or your email address as tech-support and use it wanting to know why they can't connect to google for this that or the other.

All in all, this is not a package that endears itself to the packagers or the operating system. Its whole goal is to say 'see we have the source code and you can make it do something.. but you probably don't want to do that and will use our compiled one instead.'

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:09 UTC (Mon) by andy_shev (subscriber, #75870) [Link] (4 responses)

ccache will help to save time for test builds until you be sure it's okay to go.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 21:08 UTC (Mon) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (2 responses)

I worked on LibreOffice back when it was just a set of patches on the original OpenOffice called "ooo-build". Yes, ccache helps, but it's the difference between an 8-hour build and a 3-hour build. It's still painful when something fails at the 2:45 mark.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 27, 2021 8:56 UTC (Wed) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link] (1 responses)

That looks like a broken build system. Any builder worth its name should be designed to pick up where it stopped and simply continue.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 27, 2021 17:08 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

In local development, sure. But CI and (official) package builds are almost always done from-scratch.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 23:46 UTC (Mon) by himi (subscriber, #340) [Link]

I'm pretty sure that anyone building distro packages is well aware of ccache (as well as all the associated things like distcc) - it's been a core component of large build systems for literally decades.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 21:07 UTC (Mon) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (3 responses)

> Then it is getting it to compile on whatever architectures your operating system supports

Packages like Chromium seem like a case study in "packages don't need to support architectures that have no users of *that specific package*".

Even Debian only builds Chromium for x86 and ARM.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 21:14 UTC (Mon) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] (2 responses)

Getting it to compile on just x86_64 and aarch64 can be a nightmare of arch specific problems (yes that is supposed to be where chrome is native.. hahahahaha). I wasn't even thinking of going to the x86_32 and arm32 arches as required.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 22:21 UTC (Mon) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (1 responses)

Debian also builds Chromium for 32-bit x86 and 32-bit ARM, but I suspect that removing the former wouldn't impact anyone, and the latter would impact relatively few people.

Overreactions?

Posted Feb 17, 2021 10:16 UTC (Wed) by shane (subscriber, #3335) [Link]

I still have a i386 Netbook running Debian that I sometimes use for debugging my network. I wouldn't cry too much if Chromium went away as I mostly use Firefox but I do use occasionally Chromium to double-check if problems are browser-related or not.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 26, 2021 10:56 UTC (Tue) by ibukanov (subscriber, #3942) [Link] (3 responses)

At one point Opera contributed to Chromium a jumbo build option that reduced the build time from 8 hours to 1 and half roughly. Then a year ago Google removed those patches from Chromium tree as Google does not need them as they compile with their distributed server farm. But those patches are still maintained outside Chromium.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 28, 2021 2:40 UTC (Thu) by fulke (guest, #140430) [Link] (1 responses)

Interesting. Could you post any references?

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 28, 2021 12:54 UTC (Thu) by ibukanov (subscriber, #3942) [Link]

On utility of jumbo builds in Chromium - https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2020/03/30/big-project-...

Google announcing removal of jumbo support - https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/ch... . According to my colleague who knows people on Chromium team the primary driver for the removal was a Google manager who got very upset after trying to figure out why his patch broke a build. Eventually he figured out it was due to the jumbo feature that added some small and very easy to follow restrictions on C++ code, but if one does not know about them, it can take some time to figure things out.

For getting jumbo to work with Chromium again - https://twitter.com/pati_gallardo/status/1352587508375293952

Overreactions?

Posted Feb 5, 2021 20:00 UTC (Fri) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

Those patches are basically keeping KDE afloat in Gentoo right now.

It turns out making people spend 8-16 hours a day every 6 weeks compiling a half-gigabyte rendering engine that's often only used for frivolous HTML approximations of native widgets gets tiresome fast. Maybe abandoning QtWebkit was a bad idea.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:21 UTC (Mon) by mattdm (subscriber, #18) [Link] (5 responses)

Specifically, it's not worth it if no one uses it because they've switched to Chrome to get the functionality they want.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:56 UTC (Mon) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link] (3 responses)

That's a true statement. But I strongly question the assumption that nobody will use it and everyone will switch to Chrome, over Google APIs. This is the Linux community -- a large proportion will consider this a feature, and a lot simply won't care about these features.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 26, 2021 8:54 UTC (Tue) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (2 responses)

For me it would certainly be a feature if it stopped to phone home to google.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 26, 2021 14:17 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

True, but are there enough of you (I certainly dislike using Chromium and only use it where the site is completely busted in Firefox, so this stuff is of little relevance to me) to warrant the man-weeks it takes to handle the management of the package at the distro level? That's really the question.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 27, 2021 9:27 UTC (Wed) by caliloo (subscriber, #50055) [Link]

Same for me. I can’t stand the nag of google account password every time it starts. (Yes I don’t want it to remember it given the computer setup)

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 20:15 UTC (Mon) by notriddle (subscriber, #130608) [Link]

Or they'd use Ungoogled Chromium, which is a separate package with a lot more patches than the Fedora-distributed Chromium. If you don't want to log into Google, that's probably the one you want.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:51 UTC (Mon) by mirabilos (subscriber, #84359) [Link] (1 responses)

Worse, things like wonder.me don’t work in Firefox but do work in Chromium. I had to recently install the latter, never did so before, for $orkplace requirements. I *cannot* install Google Chrome, as I’m supposed to keep my device secure.

Overreactions?

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:59 UTC (Mon) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054) [Link]

Similarly, although I need to use Chrome all day for work, I never login to Google on the work machine, and for work purposes it's better not to connect to Google outside of explicitly browsing there.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:25 UTC (Mon) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link] (4 responses)

> having to retry broken web sites in Chrome is a ritual that many Firefox users have had to get used to.

But that is an use of Chromium which does not need any of the API keys in question. Whenever a broken web site does not work in Firefox (the only one I know of is webrtc calls on Slack, though there might be others), retrying in Chromium works just fine (if I don't convince my peer to try something else like Google Meet first; I haven't opened Chromium in months), and should keep working even after this change.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:21 UTC (Mon) by leromarinvit (subscriber, #56850) [Link] (2 responses)

> if I don't convince my peer to try something else like Google Meet first

For that particular case, it seems some change a few weeks ago caused it to break in Firefox - I can connect to a call, but get disconnected a few seconds later. Since I'm forced to use it for work, Chromium it is (for that site). Incidentally, it's the only such site I've personally encountered. A vastly greater number of sites is broken by my combination of privacy addons, but a private window usually solves such problems quickly.

As an aside, I've also seen sites that work in Firefox but not Chrom{e,ium} - but I assume such sites can only survive in isolated, internal use only environments nowadays.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 8:33 UTC (Tue) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (1 responses)

At least on linux, Cisco Webex works on firefox (via an addon) but not on chrome.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 19:21 UTC (Tue) by jmclnx (guest, #72456) [Link]

Funny, where I work on my RHEL Workstation, WEBEX is fine with chrome but has issues with Firefox. (note I prefer firefox).

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 27, 2021 2:04 UTC (Wed) by jhhaller (guest, #56103) [Link]

On Mobile, Quora comments/answers don't work well in Firefox. Sometimes, when correcting, Firefox will delete much of the next word when typing a space. I've been trained to use Chrome to open Quora links. I'm sure their app works fine, I just don't want to use it.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:36 UTC (Mon) by re:fi.64 (subscriber, #132628) [Link] (4 responses)

Note that a Chromium team member has confirmed on Google Groups that safe browsing still will work: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/chromium-packa...

This matches with the initial email, which said that the API keys will lose access to Google APIs like Chrome Sync.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 20:03 UTC (Mon) by ceplm (subscriber, #41334) [Link] (1 responses)

Which is true until Google changes their mind. Again.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 16:17 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link]

Safe Browsing has been used by Firefox and Safari, as well as a number of smaller browsers, for years. Locking it down now would certainly be a surprise.

(Disclaimer: I work for Google. I don't work on Chrome, and don't know anything more about this than you probably do.)

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 18:20 UTC (Tue) by mcatanzaro (subscriber, #93033) [Link] (1 responses)

Meanwhile, I've decided to disable Safe Browsing in Epiphany: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/epiphany/-/blob/74912f8ccb...

Firefox Sync is still going strong though. It's really amazingly nice of Mozilla to make this service available to non-Firefox apps with very few requirements (they boil down to "don't be malware" and "don't pretend to be Firefox").

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 18:25 UTC (Tue) by mcatanzaro (subscriber, #93033) [Link]

To be clear: this is a separate issue. Since 2019, Google has required that API keys be kept secret. That is, they can no longer be included in open source projects (which presumably includes distro build systems). Everybody has just been ignoring the new rules since then. The Safe Browsing team clearly intends for their API to be used by open source projects, but it is just not possible to do anymore without violating the terms of service or somehow injecting secrets into the build process. Secrets are actually possible when building with GitLab (which is why the upstream build still has Safe Browsing enabled), but not possible for Linux distributions with fully public build systems and a goal of making builds reproducible.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:43 UTC (Mon) by fenncruz (subscriber, #81417) [Link] (3 responses)

Would it be possible for chromium to provide an option for a users to insert their own api key, that the users just happened to find lying on the floor?

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 19:15 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

That option is already there, but apparently all your own API keys will lose the ability to sign into Google too. (Except for "developer quota", which is carefully not characterized except to say that it is "not suitable for production use"). The lack of clarity is deafening, and surely intentional. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt is back. What fun.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 11:43 UTC (Tue) by timrichardson (subscriber, #72836) [Link]

I interpreted production use as the load of a distribution's Chromium users, all of whom use the same keys. If you use your own keys, the key has a user population of 1, and developer quotas may be ok for that. Maybe. I used my own keys with the saiarcot PPA (as described here https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/ubuntu/chromi...) for Ubuntu, which for a long time was the best way to use vaapi decoding on Ubuntu (the maintainer did not include any keys with his build). I didn't run into any quota problems. In the Google thread, the Google dev asking as spokesperson said a workflow based on individual user keys may be disabled one way or another in the future.

I hope that the actions taken by distribution maintainers to "disable APIs" still allow for BYO keys, although 95% of my browsing is in Firefox due to the Container Tabs feature which is miles ahead of Google profile functionality.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 17, 2021 12:52 UTC (Wed) by immibis (guest, #105511) [Link]

I thought they meant to extract the API key from Chrome and use that.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 18:54 UTC (Mon) by atai (subscriber, #10977) [Link] (1 responses)

With the increasing regulatory attention to "Big Tech", Google's move seems unwise...

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 21:17 UTC (Mon) by jengelh (guest, #33263) [Link]

... or does it. Perhaps they are forcing the issue in the prospect that, after regluation, they will still be better off than their competitors ...

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 22:59 UTC (Mon) by IanKelling (subscriber, #89418) [Link]

> Meanwhile, smug Firefox users

Bookmark sync? pff, I use btrfs send, and abrowser. *smugness intensifies*

Obligatory: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-reall... . Server side spell-checking? Thats SaaSS. Removing it is an upgrade in the freedom dimension. Just based on reading this article, I'm happy about these changes.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 23:15 UTC (Mon) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (1 responses)

>Firefox at least allows the use of alternative servers, so concerned users need not be dependent on the continued existence and good will of Mozilla. The server-side code is available for anybody wanting to take that approach.

The setup instructions make it very clear that us non-enterprise peasants, perhaps everyone outside of Mozilla, are not supposed to be even looking at this stuff, much less trying to use it. While it might satisfy the bare minimum required by a legal department (or a distro maintainer who doesn't look too closely at the browsers they ship), it's not open by any stretch of common sense.

A lot of chromium-based products also claim to have source available — in the disused lavatory in the basement, at the end of the corridor filled with landmines, down the unlit stairs with three steps missing. Nobody pretends that's anything other than malicious compliance.

This API key thing is probably the last straw after years of Google being malicious for a lot of distro maintainers; getting Chromium itself to build is an experience in masochism. I wish they'd throw out QtWebEngine too. The Broken Web deserves no quarter in FOSS.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 8, 2021 7:36 UTC (Mon) by emorrp1 (guest, #99512) [Link]

> The setup instructions make it very clear that us non-enterprise peasants, perhaps everyone outside of Mozilla, are not supposed to be even looking at this stuff, much less trying to use it.

I am a happy self-hoster of firefox-syncserver for the data, (but Firefox Account for just identity) and it's been pretty awesome to not worry about sending off my browser history and still be able to sling tabs between devices for reading on the go or at home.

The main issue is that despite some good efforts in 2017, it still hasn't been fully converted to python3 - so in the coming year I'll have to work out how best to keep running it following python2 removal from repositories. Hopefully someone else will do the hard work, then we can package it for debian (#900867) which would hopefully make running it yourself more accessible.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 23:20 UTC (Mon) by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758) [Link]

Hmmmmmm...never a fan of big bloats ...firefox's downright spirial made me switch and I am happy with a small thing called "vimb" . As the name suggest it a webkitgtk browser based of vim usefullness.

Okay, take it with a pinch of salt, it doesn't do all , like firefox or chromium did/do ...but it gets you going ,and provide stuff you need.

Quick , fast and till now less bloated. Compared to two those giant monolith , it's nothing ...

Confession, I had had very little use of Chromium and firefox's downhill ..force me to choose ...

Absolutely personal feeling and I am not gonna miss it for a single moment.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 25, 2021 23:20 UTC (Mon) by martin.langhoff (subscriber, #61417) [Link] (3 responses)

While I am not overly bothered by Chrome/Chromium sending bookmark data to Google _when I have signed into a Google account_; I somewhat expect that people who are bothered about it will either not login to a Google account or create an alternative they trust more.

In other words, I don't understand the hoopla without accompanying patches. Don't want to be the "back in my day" curmudgeon, and yet... back in my day we'd craft a patch to support alternative bookmark sync protocols and pointing to servers that you can self host.

Perhaps someone is working on a patch to add support to the same 3rd party services Firefox users can use, and it hasn't been reported?

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 14:46 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (2 responses)

> Perhaps someone is working on a patch to add support to the same 3rd party services Firefox users can use, and it hasn't been reported?

Mozilla is not handing out OAuth2 application keys to non-Mozilla projects for use with Mozilla's deployment. You can set up your own fxa-auth and fxa-sync servers though.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 9, 2021 1:44 UTC (Tue) by ceplm (subscriber, #41334) [Link] (1 responses)

That is not correct, actually. Epiphany supports Firefox Sync accounts.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 9, 2021 15:51 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link]

Oh, that's good news. I remember the list just having replies of "no new clients yet". I guess the GNOME/Epiphany team contacted them off-list then.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 0:28 UTC (Tue) by kunitz (subscriber, #3965) [Link] (1 responses)

I have a question: Does the fact that Microsoft distributes now a Chromium-based browser over their update channels to Windows 10 installations has to do something with Google's decision? This industry must be regulated, if it isn't able to help users to synchronize bookmarks between devices with software from different vendors.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 0:54 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]

MS Edge syncs (presumably) using some sort of Microsoft-specific protocol that is intimately tied to Microsoft's own account system.

Both Chrome and Edge are intended to help lock you into their respective maker's software-as-a-service ecosystems;

(To be blunt all of these "chromium" users put together probably don't even count as a rounding error vs Chrome or Edge, to say nothing of their combined install base..)

The endless browser wars: Debian edition

Posted Jan 26, 2021 4:18 UTC (Tue) by calumapplepie (guest, #143655) [Link]

Debian was really ahead of the ball here. We've been disabling Google Sync in our chromium package for years. Whats more, we've already removed it from bullseye!

Jokes aside, Chromium packaging is a massive headache. It's been knocked out of bullseye because the maintainer didn't feel they could keep up alone, and the current factor blocking its re-entry is the fact that people are hesitant to commit to providing security support to such a headache of a package for the next 3 years. Chromium might be open-source, but it's really a Google product intended to be downloaded from Google and used under their watchful gaze. I can't say I'm shocked at this change.

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 26, 2021 6:49 UTC (Tue) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link] (5 responses)

I have an use-case where Chromium(-freeworld) is better than Chrome. I'm a casual gamer. So casual I play maybe 5-6 hours per month, so investing in dedicated gaming hardware is unreasonable. Instead I play on Stadia – Google's streaming gaming platform.

First of all, it works only with Chromium and derivatives, like MS Edge. It doesn't work with Firefox.

Second, the core requirement for gaming platforms is a realtime decoding if 1080p or 4k video streams. Chrome on Linux DOES NOT support accelerated video decoding. Software decoder in this browser introduces over 1 second of delay, making first person shooters unplayable.
At the same time, Chromium in RPMFusion repositories carries patches to fix hardware video decoding, making it a better browser than plain Chrome.

It's ironic that Google-provided browser is worse for Google platform than 3rd-party recompile.

(It is also ironic that games available on Stadia are being run on Linux, while there are not available on Linux as standalone)

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 26, 2021 9:08 UTC (Tue) by sandsmark (guest, #62172) [Link]

> At the same time, Chromium in RPMFusion repositories carries patches to fix hardware video decoding, making it a better browser than plain Chrome.

Not anymore, it just needs to be enabled at build time. Arch Linux has enabled it without patches (AFAIK) for a fairly long time now: https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-packages/blob/packa...

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 26, 2021 11:21 UTC (Tue) by juliank (guest, #45896) [Link] (3 responses)

It's not "worse", it's just that vaapi can be incredibly unstable and crash your system, and Google does not want to deal with the bug reports from that.

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 26, 2021 23:39 UTC (Tue) by mss (subscriber, #138799) [Link] (2 responses)

It's not the VA-API itself that is unstable but the backing GPU and its drivers.
Often not only when decoding videos but also when doing just hardware-accelerated OpenGL rendering.

It looks like GPUs are designed primary with performance in mind, not long-term stability.

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 29, 2021 16:52 UTC (Fri) by sheepdestroyer (guest, #54968) [Link] (1 responses)

These are the same GPUs running hardware decoding by default on Windows.

Chromium is better sometimes

Posted Jan 29, 2021 17:55 UTC (Fri) by mss (subscriber, #138799) [Link]

This could be due to variety of reasons, from Windows users being used to getting a BSoD from time to time, Windows GPU drivers emulating certain known-problematic operations in software, to GPU vendors deprecating driver support for older chips quicker.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 12:39 UTC (Tue) by al4711 (subscriber, #57932) [Link]

Finally Chromium starts to get more privacy friendly with removing the proprietary parts.

I hope this "Safe Browsing" tracking will also be remove as it is removed on this patch-set https://ungoogled-software.github.io/

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 26, 2021 14:23 UTC (Tue) by joey (guest, #328) [Link]

For the distributions that care about software freedom, this is a form of technical debt raising its head. They have avoided confronting the problem of free software that depends on non-free network services, and so their users who want to avoid that are left with an infinity of config settings to try to accomplish it, and meanwhile they've helped hook many of their users on these non-free services rather than promoting alternatives from the beginning.

The endless browser wars

Posted Jan 27, 2021 9:57 UTC (Wed) by Creideiki (subscriber, #38747) [Link]

If bookmark synchronisation really is such a killer app, I would have thought that setting up Floccus would be less philosophically and technically challenging than switching to an even more proprietary browser.

API Key rotation

Posted Jan 28, 2021 14:20 UTC (Thu) by kpfleming (subscriber, #23250) [Link]

The article says that changing the API Keys would require 'force-upgrading' Chrome users... but that's already the case for the vast majority of users, since the browsers are updated quite often and upgrade themselves automatically.

I suspect Google could rotate the API keys every 3-4 months without much of a disturbance for 'normal' (Google channel) Chrome users.

Don't forget to call out websites which refuse to run on anything but Google Chrome (and Safari)

Posted Jan 30, 2021 2:16 UTC (Sat) by jrw (subscriber, #69959) [Link] (1 responses)

Today I had to try 4 different browser/OS combinations before I found one which worked. I was trying to get in the virtual line for a Covid vaccine at my local supermarket chain (clinic.meijer.com/register). Their registration form workflow failed part-way through with Linux Mint/Firefox, Android/Firefox, and even Linux Mint/Google Chrome. It only worked with Chrome on Android.

I really try to avoid such websites, but in this case I felt it was worth it to compromise. However I also felt duty bound to encourage them to try harder to use a framework which supports Firefox and test against it, so I called Meijer's customer service desk to complain and also sent them an email.

Don't forget to call out websites which refuse to run on anything but Google Chrome (and Safari)

Posted Jan 31, 2021 5:25 UTC (Sun) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link]

So you weren't willing to die for software freedom?

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 4, 2021 4:25 UTC (Thu) by linuxrocks123 (subscriber, #34648) [Link] (1 responses)

You can run your own Chromium Sync server if you want to.

https://github.com/ipernet/chromium-sync-server/

Mind you, I've never tried it. I run my own Weave 1.1 sync server and use Pale Moon.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 5, 2021 22:53 UTC (Fri) by iainn (guest, #64312) [Link]

Personally I'd recommend against a sync server that “does not persist data on restart”. That said, I recently read that Brave’s sync server is FOSS.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 7, 2021 14:54 UTC (Sun) by bblacksr (guest, #83377) [Link]

I just don't like Chromium or Chrome, unfortunately the only reason I use it is because my local paper stopped working in Firefox. Botheration.

The endless browser wars

Posted Feb 14, 2021 18:35 UTC (Sun) by ILMostro (guest, #105083) [Link]

Unfortunately, with more and more people becoming all too happy to forgo their privacy and freedoms in favour of technology that "just works", I'm not as optimistic about the adoption of "free alternatives" as I once was. I hope I'm wrong in this regard, for everyone's sake.


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