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Development statistics for the 5.0 kernel

Posted Feb 21, 2019 19:09 UTC (Thu) by jani (subscriber, #74547)
Parent article: Development statistics for the 5.0 kernel

> Daylight savings time can throw things off

Indeed. Judging by a handful of European developers whose time zones I know, about half their commits to 5.0 are in DST, and if they're in any way representative, a significant portion of the results are tilted one time zone to East.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 19:04 UTC (Thu) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by Wol
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

> Something that the GDPR's detractors repeatedly "forget" - the GDPR does NOT NOT NOT apply to original material. It only applies to search engines and indexes.

I'm not 100% sure you're correct there:

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/

> The data subject shall have the right to obtain from the controller the erasure of personal data concerning him or her without undue delay and the controller shall have the obligation to erase personal data without undue delay [...]

That applies to all data controllers, where a controller is:

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/

> ‘controller’ means the natural or legal person, public authority, agency or other body which, alone or jointly with others, determines the purposes and means of the processing of personal data; where the purposes and means of such processing are determined by Union or Member State law, the controller or the specific criteria for its nomination may be provided for by Union or Member State law;

So, if you "determine the purpose and means of the processing of personal data" - i.e. you have personal data about a "data subject" - a person, then that person has the right to request that data be erased, according to various criteria.

Note that that appears to apply to *all* data controllers, not "only search engines and indexes".

So if you post your address to a social media platform, and then you decide you don't want them to have that data, you should be able to file a GDPR erasure request to get them to delete the post.

However, I'm not sure how that works with a distributed system like git. If someone asks me to delete a git commit that has their personal information in it, that could be tricky. I think some people who were looking at different ways to add large file support came up with an idea to be able to tell git "hey, there should be a blob with hash #xxxxxx here, but it isn't here, just ignore it" - without it throwing a fit, so you could delete stuff without invalidating history. Or you could just delete the whole git tree, which would fulfill the erasure request too. But having fulfilled the erasure request, if you clone/pull from another user who did not get the erasure request, and get a fresh copy of the data - is that then OK?


Security quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 18:38 UTC (Thu) by Karellen (subscriber, #67644)
In reply to: Security quotes of the week by kjp
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

I think I mostly agree with you, but do you mean "if the currency is/was gold" or "if the currency is/was *backed by* gold"?

If the former, how do you imagine that financial / banking institutions lend more gold than they physically possess?


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 21, 2019 16:58 UTC (Thu) by dirkhh (subscriber, #50216)
In reply to: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile by pabs
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

The problem with that is that we could do this for Subsurface, but we'd need to get every project we depend on (and that's under a reciprocal license) to do the same... which seems like an insurmountable hurdle. As I mentioned in the talk - we asked some of the copyright holders in some of those libraries (notice those two 'some's) and they all felt that our approach was acceptable to them. But that's very different from having an actual exception.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 16:45 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by tchernobog
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

> I wonder how the GPDR's "right to be forgotten" is handled by gitgeist

Something that the GDPR's detractors repeatedly "forget" - the GDPR does NOT NOT NOT apply to original material. It only applies to search engines and indexes.

So anything I post about me is not covered.

And anything I post that is defamatory / libellous / slanderous / whatever about someone else is already covered by other laws.

Americans seem to have this weird idea that everyone else's business is something they have a right to be interested in, and that no-one has a right to a protective wall where they can say "keep out".

The GDPR simply says that I have an interest in information about me, and I have the right to a say in how it is used. ESPECIALLY if it wasn't me that handed over the data in the first place - facebook, I'm looking at you !!!

Cheers,
Wol


Distribution quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 16:39 UTC (Thu) by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
In reply to: Distribution quotes of the week by pizza
Parent article: Distribution quotes of the week

In fact it's the other way around. Investing time and/or money *makes* your brain think that all this effort had an effect.

This has actually been confirmed by fMRI scans: expensive wines taste better. Objectively – because those parts of your brain that are responsible for enjoying stuff are more active. The fact that this effect is caused by the price tag instead of the actual fermented grapes is of secondary import.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 16:25 UTC (Thu) by mjthayer (guest, #39183)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by roc
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

> It's a fair point that a social network can be successful without being competitive with the really big ones.

Isn't it a general thing with entering a market that it makes sense to find an underserved niche which is not very interesting to the incumbent players?


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 15:19 UTC (Thu) by jani (subscriber, #74547)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by excors
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

> Immutable history is a nice idea until you're legally or morally required to mutate it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 21, 2019 15:02 UTC (Thu) by rweikusat2 (subscriber, #117920)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by neilbrown
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

......... :-))


Development quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 14:44 UTC (Thu) by jani (subscriber, #74547)
In reply to: Development quotes of the week by bkuhn
Parent article: Development quotes of the week

I won't even attempt to summarize any of this, mainly because I couldn't be bothered to read it all, but looks like it's all here:

http://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t174687/SleepyHead-Proj...


Security quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 14:33 UTC (Thu) by kjp (guest, #39639)
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

Cryptocurrencies also don't solve the problem that the entire financial / banking system is based on debt, not currency. It doesn't _matter_ what the currency is. It was the same when the currency was gold. Derivatives and lending will be thousands of times the value of the currency. Good luck changing that. I'm with Bruce here.


Distribution quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 13:52 UTC (Thu) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118)
In reply to: Distribution quotes of the week by pizza
Parent article: Distribution quotes of the week

This is example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law


Distribution quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 13:32 UTC (Thu) by pizza (subscriber, #46)
Parent article: Distribution quotes of the week

I get how low-latency kernels and other system-level optimizations will benefit certain kinds of audio *production* work, but how exactly is any of that (or choice of desktop environment) supposed to have an effect on "The clarity and playback of digital music" given the same hardware? (Heck, even the software involved is the same!)

Or is this just another example of the monster cable effect, where folks justify ridiculous levels of cost & time investment with empirically-false claims of superior results?


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 13:13 UTC (Thu) by excors (subscriber, #95769)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by tchernobog
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

That sounds the same as removing any other kind of illegal material - copyrighted works, illegal porn, etc. That's an issue with blockchains: https://blockchain.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47130268, etc. Immutable history is a nice idea until you're legally or morally required to mutate it.

But from the description of gitgeist, I don't see why that'd be a problem for it. It sounds like every user has their own independent git repository, they refer to other users by repository URL, and posts are represented by directories and files. None of it intentionally depends on commit hashes, so rewriting history should be fine: you can delete stuff from your own repository and continue participating in the network as normal, and if someone else has a cached copy of your now-deleted commits then that's not your problem. It doesn't seem to be depending on any unique properties of git, it's just using git as a database and as a data synchronisation protocol, so it's basically the same as if you used any other kind of database.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 21, 2019 13:12 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by Cyberax
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

Also, modern commercially-interesting cultivars of many food crops and similar plants are often hybrids that do not “breed true”, i.e., they don't reliably propagate the traits that make them commercially interesting to their progeny. This is a consequence of how genetics works.

This means that farmers often prefer buying new hybrid seeds with desirable traits (like, high yield or resistance to pesticides) to keeping back part of their previous harvest for re-sowing, which would lead to a worse outcome. IOW, farmers tend to not want to infringe on patents on the seeds because it wouldn't help them commercially.


Development quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 12:58 UTC (Thu) by callegar (guest, #16148)
In reply to: Development quotes of the week by flussence
Parent article: Development quotes of the week

I think that the ability to deal with a single application rather than the whole desktop truly makes a difference. X11 is still quite good at it via xpra. I truly hope that xpra project idea to duplicate as a wayland compositor to do the same with wayland applications can become a reality soon (https://www.xpra.org/trac/wiki/ProjectIdeas).


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 21, 2019 11:27 UTC (Thu) by tchernobog (guest, #73595)
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

I wonder how the GPDR's "right to be forgotten" is handled by gitgeist. That would probably require to extensively rewrite the history, so I wonder if they already figured it out.


An ancient OpenSSH vulnerability

Posted Feb 21, 2019 10:18 UTC (Thu) by thestinger (guest, #91827)
In reply to: An ancient OpenSSH vulnerability by flussence
Parent article: An ancient OpenSSH vulnerability

HTTPS isn't strongly coupled to the CA-based browser-centric PKI ecosystem. It's a transport protocol. It's often used with other trust systems like hard-wired public key certificates in client applications or just different CAs such as organization-local ones.

SSH supports CAs in addition to the baseline Trust On First Use system most people experience. The baseline lacks any meaningful authentication for the first connection to a server unless a fingerprint / key is communicated out-of-band. It also does still include a lot of bad cipher options, and included more in the past. HTTPS only looks bad if you're talking about the legacy protocols, which aren't necessary in other contexts like they are for a browser. You can stick to TLS 1.2 / 1.3 only elsewhere.


Security quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 9:34 UTC (Thu) by mina86 (guest, #68442)
In reply to: Security quotes of the week by gevaerts
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

I wouldn’t know. I’m not one of them.


Security quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 9:32 UTC (Thu) by gevaerts (subscriber, #21521)
In reply to: Security quotes of the week by mina86
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

Yes, that is indeed the strongest argument cyrptocurrency fans seem to have against any opposition.


Some quick questions

Posted Feb 21, 2019 8:56 UTC (Thu) by callegar (guest, #16148)
Parent article: France enters the Matrix

- Does the matrix allow users to migrate from one homeserver to another? The problem with decentralized services is that often you cannot know well all the decentralized service providers to immediately make the best choice among them. Furthermore, their lasting through time may not be guaranteed.

- Does the matrix allow you to search users globally? I really think that one of the reasons for the success of things like skype or facebook is the fact that you can rapidly build your own network of people to communicate with by searching them (with them only accepting being searched). Without global searches, someone must first tell you how to find him/her.

- Do you need to configure the connection to a turn server in order to be able to use it from natted connections or is nat traversal autoconfigured (as it is in skype, whatsapp, etc)? For instance, one of the issues with ring/jami is that (at least in my experience) it cannot be used reliably on machines that are moving around like laptops/mobile phones as way to often you get an internet connection from which the application stops working.


binfmt_misc

Posted Feb 21, 2019 8:24 UTC (Thu) by mm7323 (subscriber, #87386)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Couldn't you just use binfmt_misc to match on #! and then run a process that can open up the script and figure out the required interpreter and arguments in userspace?

That should surely be possible for a distro that wants to do unusual things and only costs an extra exec() for starting up scripts which aren't known to be that fast anyway.


Security quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 7:55 UTC (Thu) by mina86 (guest, #68442)
Parent article: Security quotes of the week

I’m beginning to get an impression that Bruce is just biased against cryptocurrencies and doesn’t even try to hide it.


Development quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 4:50 UTC (Thu) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642)
In reply to: Development quotes of the week by brooksmoses
Parent article: Development quotes of the week

A quick look at the project's Gitlab's page hints pretty strongly that he faced a lot of GPL violations that were difficult for him to resolve (note the statements asking for proper credit). I wish I could have talked to him before it got bad, as I could probably have helped, but I didn't know about the project until I saw this quote. Plus, it seems like most of the problems were completely license-unrelated, so it's exaggerating to take the quote out of context like this. Most of the problems his blog post talks about are community-relationship issues that come in projects with any license.


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 21, 2019 4:40 UTC (Thu) by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Re the Apple license incompatibility, I would suggest adding an explicit license exception for this so that modified versions, forks or related apps can also be distributed on the Apple Store:

https://signal.org/blog/license-update/


Design for security

Posted Feb 21, 2019 3:41 UTC (Thu) by fest3er (guest, #60379)
Parent article: Design for security

The real problem can be illustrated by a quote from the movie, Cool Hand Luke: "What we've got here is failure to communicate." After 40 years in the field, I *still* find evidence of far too many software professionals who either can't or won't clearly communicate their thoughts to other people.

It gets down to the most fundamental characteristic of inter-human communication: the fact that *all* human languages are programming languages because human language is the effort of one person to program others' neural nets to think her thoughts. Some day I'll challenge all software people to master English (or at least master their native languages). The internet is rife with examples of ambiguous human programs. Shoot, a reading of NHRA's carefully-prepared rule book will reveal lots of ambiguities; some rule is intended to prevent injury A, so the racer must do Q but the rule, as written, allows lesser X, Y, and Z actions as well. (As much as I try to write clear English, I often still fail to communicate my thoughts to others; I'm sure this missive will be no exception.)

The BeyondCorp security model was mentioned, in that it opened one's private internetwork to the universe. Something that isn't quite as bad is TLS because it bypasses the private internetwork's perimeter firewall. Once the encrypted link it established, the firewall cannot block malware or theft. IMO, the time of SSL/TLS is long past and it should be largely retired; the recent push to shove TLS everywhere is misguided at best. The proper solution is host-to-gateway and gateway-to-gateway opportunistic encryption. Prevent deliberate, casual or incidental observation of private/confidential data, but allow perimeter firewalls to block trojans, viruses, ransomware, phishing, data theft, and other 'crimes'. (People who are terrified that someone might see what they're doing on an internetwork probably shouldn't be using the net in the first place. IMO.) VPNs must be allowed, but all network traffic other than the VPN should be forced through the business/SOHO/personal firewall so that it can be filtered and inspected for malware. Most people don't use VPNs because most software engineers and programmers make it too hard to use.

Basically, I generally agree with Miss Chen. Usability and security must go hand-in-hand. Engineers, programmers and coders nede to learn to think like ordinary people; they need to crawl out of their virtual universes and learn to communicate with non-technical people. And non-technical people need to learn some of the tech terminology so they can more readily learn how to best use the tech they own. Many smart phones have multi-GiB RAM because people don't know or don't care that they have 500 apps open. When I finish using an app on my phone, I close it; I think the most apps I ever had open at one time was 8. When I need the net, I turn WiFi or cell data on. When done, I turn them off.


France enters the Matrix

Posted Feb 21, 2019 3:38 UTC (Thu) by donbarry (guest, #10485)
Parent article: France enters the Matrix

Is anyone else increasingly uncomfortable with the "we'll solve the certificate problem by deferring to centralized registrars that surely keep their keys private from state actors."

I mean, this is potentially not a risk if there is a recognizable way of communicating low-bandwidth fingerprints of the next encryption level, like ZRTP verification on voice. But note how WebRTC has done the same thing? And efforts to solve the problem are talked about and then, somehow, nothing ever happens with the standards.

It's enough to drive one paranoid.


Design for security

Posted Feb 21, 2019 2:50 UTC (Thu) by fest3er (guest, #60379)
In reply to: Design for security by Wol
Parent article: Design for security

No need to buy anything. Get a late-model PC (dual-core, 1.6GHz CPU or faster, 2GiB RAM, SATA HD, and 2-4 NICs depending on how many zones you want), and install Smoothwall Express on it. I spent a good amount of time getting its QoS (Traffic Control) to work well. Since I released v3.1 in 2014, it has done a very good job preventing any traffic stream from hogging bandwidth. No matter what I do DLing or ULing, all streams share the bandwidth fairly (almost equally). I can have multiple GB downloads and uploads going with none blocking any others. Interactive response is still very good. Identified isochronous traffic is very smooth. DNS and NTP traffic are very timely. Low priority bulk traffic (such as P2P) can use any B/W left after all higher priority packets have been sent. It isn't perfect. Or complete. But it does work well. And is still designed for non-experts; they need to know some technical stuff, but most of the jargon and arcana are hidden from them.

Linux's Traffic Control is poorly documented and leads to impossible expectations. I designed a nice JS-based configuration tool that I eventually abandoned because LTC just cannot do what the documentation says. However, once I really understood what it can do and what it cannot do, I was able to 'fix' traffic control so that, for the most part, traffic flows smoothly. LTC also cannot easily control multiple interfaces; for example, a gigE NIC might be able to 'block out' a 100Mb/s NIC when they both 'send' to a 10Mb/s internet link.

I haven't addressed buffer bloat. 'ls -lstr /' through an SSH connection results in ^C being unresponsive for 5-10 seconds. But dealing with that much output doesn't happen too often.

In short, there *are* Linux-based routers that do a nice job of enforcing bandwidth sharing. And some of them are free.


Definition of derived work

Posted Feb 21, 2019 2:39 UTC (Thu) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
In reply to: Definition of derived work by benbu
Parent article: The proper use of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL()

Well, it wasn't when it was first ported. But they can grow towards each other over time and the changes in the driver ending up being derivative. For example, if Linux adds some fancy new API that didn't exist before and then the driver ends up using it, it's hard to argue that the bits *using that API* are not derivative. Those bits may be in the core of the driver. The GPL has some things to say about that.

Also not a lawyer. :)


Creating Linux virtual filesystems

Posted Feb 21, 2019 2:34 UTC (Thu) by lumotwe (guest, #111752)
Parent article: Creating Linux virtual filesystems


Development quotes of the week

Posted Feb 21, 2019 2:13 UTC (Thu) by brooksmoses (guest, #88422)
Parent article: Development quotes of the week

Does anyone have more context on Mark Watkins's comment? What I'm getting from the post is a picture of a sadly burned-out lead developer who is letting go of a project because it has become a problem in their life rather than a source of happiness, and he blames it in part on "poor software licencing choices," but it's not clear to me whether he's blaming this on something particular about the GPL versus things like BSD, or whether he's using GPL as shorthand for free- and open-source licenses in general.

It's a sad story, in any case. Unfortunately, it's not limited to software (open or not); I've seen very similar abusive entitlement from readers against science fiction authors when the next book in a series is delayed.


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 21, 2019 0:00 UTC (Thu) by khim (subscriber, #9252)
In reply to: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile by halla
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

For Krita another target could make sense: ChromeOS. These devices run Android apps nowadays - but with mouse and keyboard. Thus could perhaps could be easier first target than phones.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 20, 2019 23:21 UTC (Wed) by roc (subscriber, #30627)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by nevets
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

It's a fair point that a social network can be successful without being competitive with the really big ones.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 20, 2019 23:03 UTC (Wed) by pr1268 (guest, #24648)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by nevets
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

I agree with roc: Facebook, G+, and Twitter each already have a critical mass of users to be successful.

These have flourished, in spite of the existence of the others, because of the specialization you mention. Whether Gitgeist finds its niche market and succeeds remains to be seen, but then again the article stresses that it's a proof-of-concept social network.

Quite frankly I'm impressed with how well git can be abused this way. ;-)


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 22:59 UTC (Wed) by neilbrown (subscriber, #359)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Time for a new patch tag I guess:

Fixes: NOTHING - don't ever back-port this to stable


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 22:32 UTC (Wed) by pebolle (guest, #35204)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by foom
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

I see. So it seems - or, put another way, strace showed me - that this behaviour of /bin/sh is what allows execlp() to do its, well, magic.


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 20, 2019 22:12 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185)
In reply to: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile by dirkhh
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

I've been going through the scripts and files in the repo all evening :-)


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 22:08 UTC (Wed) by foom (subscriber, #14868)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by pebolle
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Some shells *also* handle this themselves.

E.g., with bash, if execve fails with -ENOEXEC, it will reset all the shell state and evaluate the #!-less script file directly in the post-fork bash process, rather than exec'ing anything at all (neither /bin/sh nor /bin/bash!)


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 20, 2019 21:05 UTC (Wed) by nhippi (subscriber, #34640)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by roc
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Once upon the time all our friends where using ICQ and Geocities. "All my friends are on X" never stopped people trying out new things and eventually moving over.


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 20, 2019 20:58 UTC (Wed) by dirkhh (subscriber, #50216)
In reply to: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile by halla
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

We have quite a few dependencies - libusb, libftdi, libhidapi, libgit2, libxml2, libxslt, ssl, curl... but I bet nowhere near as bad as Krita.
Feel free to poke around in the sources (https://github.com/Subsurface-divelog/subsurface) or to reach out in email...


Patch backports

Posted Feb 20, 2019 20:32 UTC (Wed) by Spack (subscriber, #77556)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

How come a test kernel can feed a stable kernel with backported patches? I would have expected that only patches within the Linux stable kernel 5.0 would be allowed to be backported to previous versions?


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 20, 2019 20:22 UTC (Wed) by nevets (subscriber, #11875)
In reply to: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept by roc
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

I actually disagree. I use Facebook, G+ and Twitter, and each one I use for different reasons. G+ was my "technical" social network. "Facebook" is my "ordinary people" social network. And twitter is my "here's what's happening now" network.

The part I disagree with is the "all of your friends". This wouldn't be something I want all my friends to be on. This would be more something I would like to be a more technical network, where I would want to save all the posts and what was discussed, on my personal harddrives.

Thus, if you get a few people to start posting things that others would like to have access to, then it can be a success, without having "all your friends" being on it. And it being decentralized and open source, it would work with 10 people using it, or 10,000,000 people using it.


Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

Posted Feb 20, 2019 19:08 UTC (Wed) by roc (subscriber, #30627)
Parent article: Yaghmour: gitgeist: a git-based social network proof of concept

The main thing a social network needs to be competitive is all of your friends already using it.


Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

Posted Feb 20, 2019 17:04 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185)
Parent article: Producing an application for both desktop and mobile

He'd probably found many more QML developers if he'd given the presentation at Fosdem :-).

In any case, since I'm interesting in doing much the same thing, porting Krita to iOS and Android, I'll take a look at how subsurface has set things up. What I'm wondering is, how many dependencies does subsurface have...

Of course, Krita has a _huge_ ui layer, all QWidgets, and our previous QML ui broke when Qt moved to a scenegraph for QML, so our OpengGL canvas broke. And a huge number of dependencies, as well.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 16:32 UTC (Wed) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by madhatter
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

>> That may well be true, but I fear I missed the straw poll whereby it was established.

There was a lot of hallway discussion afterward. Also, we discussed it some at the speakers' dinner for the track. There was a very lively debate there. :)

I realize there was none of this available to you; next time someone from LWN is at our Legal & Policy DevRoom, please do let us know. I can't promise the press will be invited to the speakers' dinner, but I would have made the case that you should be invited to the DevRoom co-organizers.

(I co-organize the DevRoom where this talk occurred, along with Tom Marble, Karen Sandler and Richard Fontana.)


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 14:17 UTC (Wed) by nowster (subscriber, #67)
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

And just how many implementations of exFAT are there on Github?


Definition of derived work

Posted Feb 20, 2019 14:14 UTC (Wed) by benbu (guest, #130526)
Parent article: The proper use of EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL()

(I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advise, just common sense.)

A derived work is based on the base work. A clear and generally accepted indication that something is not a derived work is when the work can exist without the base work, or even clearer, if the work was created independently of the base work and is now only being integrated with the base work. If that is the case, then it's clearly not a derived work, but independent.

For example, a program originally created for BSD Unix is now being ported to Linux. (In addition to, and in line with, the special OS exception in GPL 2.0 clause 3,) that program is clearly not a derived work of Linux.

This reasoning does not apply to most device drivers, because they were written specifically for that kernel and typically even as part of the kernel. Most device drivers cannot exist independently of the OS they were written for, but inherently and deeply depend on it. Thus, it can be said that they are derived works.

The NVIDIA graphics driver was originally developed for Windows. It clearly existed and worked independent of its Linux adaption. From what I understand, large parts of the NVIDIA driver source code are shared between Windows, Linux and Mac. In fact, from what I read, the nVidia team made great efforts to keep as much code of the driver as possible generic and operating system independent.

Any code that depends on the OS and the API functions of the OS is therefore strictly necessary for its operation and optimal performance in terms of features and speed.

For me, that means that the nvidia driver is not a derivative work of the Linux kernel, for the same reason that a BSD Unix application is not a derivate of the Linux kernel. The technical details, that certain interfaces in Linux had to be created specifically to support the nvidia kernel, do not negate this fundamental situation from a legal point of view. That's similar to Linux adding e.g. new crypto interfaces in order to be able to run an already existing BSD application. Even if the BSD app needs additional APIs, the BSD app still existed and worked independent of Linux, just like the NVIDIA driver worked on Windows before it was integrated into Linux, and in fact it made efforts to use as little of the Linux kernel as technically reasonable, and therefore it cannot possibly be a derived work of Linux.

The phrase "any users of the functionality in question can only be a derived work of the kernel" is therefore false on face value.

Something that existed independently of the Linux kernel with the same feature on another OS and was merely ported from another OS to Linux can never be a derived work of the Linux kernel.

Ben


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 13:43 UTC (Wed) by smitty_one_each (subscriber, #28989)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

It's a shame that something bad happened, but, considering the man-years of effort put into the kernel and the princely sums paid to so many of the contributors...it almost seems a left-handed compliment that such boo-boos are so rare.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 11:55 UTC (Wed) by pebolle (guest, #35204)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by epa
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Michael Kerrisk's TLPI (p. 575) points to execlp() and execvp() for that behaviour. A quick test showed that execlp() indeed treats such an executable file "as though [it] started with a line containing the string #!/bin/sh".


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 11:19 UTC (Wed) by epa (subscriber, #39769)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by epa
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

OK, according to the historical lore linked later in this discussion, it's the shell that is responsible for treating an executable as a shell script if it looks like one. Also Perl's exec() call does it. But the raw system call and C library do not: trying to execl() an executable file which just contains 'echo hello' will fail. It needs the shebang line.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 10:10 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by madhatter
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

> The Q&A period was short. The only probing legal questions that were asked related to design patents (Lindberg replied that he'd not done the analysis) and to Bowman v. Monsanto. That case was about patented seeds, and whether the creation of new seeds was covered by patent exhaustion; the Bowman court held that the patent right to make a new copy wasn't exhausted by the sale of the seeds.
Seeds (and animal breeds) have special protection in the patent law. It recognizes that self-replicating entities need to be treated differently from regular dumb objects.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 9:35 UTC (Wed) by meuh (guest, #22042)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by fuhchee
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Artificial intelligence gives artificial answers


Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

Posted Feb 20, 2019 8:26 UTC (Wed) by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
In reply to: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia by tdz
Parent article: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

Maybe somebody like the Raspberry Pi foundation? They at least can be trusted to have the "needs of the small, hobbyist users" in mind. (They should get the rest of their patches upstreamed, dammit.)

The main problem is, however, that these needs are not a well-defined deliverable that'd be easy to organize some funding around, crowd- or otherwise.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 8:13 UTC (Wed) by epa (subscriber, #39769)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by dona73110
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Isn’t there an ancient convention, predating shebang lines, that if it doesn’t look like a binary executable it gets run through /bin/sh by default?


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 7:44 UTC (Wed) by madhatter (subscriber, #4665)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by bkuhn
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

> As for Van's talk, definitely listen to the Q&A.

In fairness, I should note that as soon as Lindberg read the article, he asked for a short note about the Q&A to be added. I declined, so the article as published rather skates over the Q&A, as you note; if I'd added a para about it, I would have said something like this (and I'm grateful to Lindberg for certain elements of this summary):

The Q&A period was short. The only probing legal questions that were asked related to design patents (Lindberg replied that he'd not done the analysis) and to Bowman v. Monsanto. That case was about patented seeds, and whether the creation of new seeds was covered by patent exhaustion; the Bowman court held that the patent right to make a new copy wasn't exhausted by the sale of the seeds. Lindberg argued that the difference was that that the Monsanto licence agreement forbade anyone from replanting seeds, where FOSS licences grant the rights to copy and make.

> a lot of the folks in the room felt that his argument might be sophistry

That may well be true, but I fear I missed the straw poll whereby it was established.

> I suspect his exhaustion theory would need to be adjudicated before we could rely on it heavily in FOSS.

That, I would agree with.


Wrong interpreter

Posted Feb 20, 2019 6:49 UTC (Wed) by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
In reply to: Wrong interpreter by rfunk
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Falling back on the default shell is not the same than falling back on the current shell.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 4:59 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by magfr
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

If I understand right, this is not about a "non-practicing entity". It is about resale/reuse of an already patent-licensed item. If a patent troll holds the XOR cursor patent, and it's valid, you can't implement the XOR cursor without paying them. But if they have *licensed* the patent to X.org for their codebase, and you then use the X.org code in your own product, they can't sue you. Cf the AOSP example .


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 4:44 UTC (Wed) by sfeam (subscriber, #2841)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by magfr
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

I don't know whether the argument works at all, but if it works then it works against companies that license the patents and sell products that depend on them. The ownership of the patent does not matter at that point. So no, offloading the patent to a 3rd party would not change things.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 4:43 UTC (Wed) by magfr (subscriber, #16052)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by magfr
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

Oh yes, IANAL, so anything I say are just ramblings.
With that said he might have an opening to curb NPEs in there.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 4:38 UTC (Wed) by magfr (subscriber, #16052)
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

While this is a nice hack the usual protections of having patents belong to an non- practicing entity would still work, i.e. this sadly won't work against patent trolls, only against honest companies.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 4:10 UTC (Wed) by jeremyhetzler (subscriber, #127663)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

More on how shebang works, and gory details of how it differs in various systems:

https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/shebang/


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 3:43 UTC (Wed) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642)
In reply to: Patent exhaustion and open source by KaiRo
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

> Hmm, so MSFT joined OIN because after buying GitHub, their portfolio was basically already pretty much exhausted towards FLOSS anyhow? ;-)

I note the wink, but others might not realize that OIN membership doesn't do much for FLOSS generally as the Linux system definition is quite narrow and OIN is (not surprisingly) not open to including key FLOSS projects that implement technologies where OIN's members and funders have heavy patenting.

As for Van's talk, definitely listen to the Q&A. Van is a very engaging speaker but a lot of the folks in the room felt that his argument might be sophistry. I really hope Van's arguments in this particular talk are right, but they appear to be pretty radical views among patent attorneys. I suspect his exhaustion theory would need to be adjudicated before we could rely on it heavily in FOSS.


Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

Posted Feb 20, 2019 2:20 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
In reply to: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia by nix
Parent article: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

Are there other organisations related to Free Software that would be able to fund such work? The only one I can think of that has enough funding would be Mozilla but it seems unlikely they would be interested.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 20, 2019 1:55 UTC (Wed) by scientes (guest, #83068)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by TheJH
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

I came here to post the same thing. The article really should be fixed. Linux has nothing shell specific, and one of systemd's goals was to remove that dependancy, so reading this kind of irked me (really?????).


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 20, 2019 1:21 UTC (Wed) by KaiRo (subscriber, #1987)
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

Hmm, so MSFT joined OIN because after buying GitHub, their portfolio was basically already pretty much exhausted towards FLOSS anyhow? ;-)


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 23:47 UTC (Tue) by perennialmind (guest, #45817)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

It looks like musl libc doesn't have the rickety fallback to crazytown. I for one hope they leave this POSIX compliance "bug" as is.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 23:19 UTC (Tue) by ewen (subscriber, #4772)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Leaving aside the initial regression (the #! line has always been prone to truncation; as other comments say it used to be truncated earlier in older Unixes, and older software like perl has workarounds for this for decades), the discussion about the regression induced in *stable* kernels is more worrying. The discussion seems to be saying "whitelisting patches for the kernel stable tree is too hard and does not scale, so let's select them automatically and then let people blacklist the ones that shouldn't be backported". The "spotting ones to blacklist" seems even less likely to reliably scale, with more false negatives ("spot the problem patch amongst the hundreds automatically added this week" missing some that should have been flagged "don't backport").

If the "stable" kernels are going to have not-manually-selected/verified changes in them, and a shorter release cycle, it seems to me they'd increasingly become "alternative bleeding edge" kernels with older features, but "assorted newer patches added in for flavour." At which point I wonder who would run them? Those wanting actual stability probably end up relying on their distro kernel teams manual review, and those wanting the bleeding edge probably want the new features too. In other words the explicit manual selection of "stable" changes, and the QA, is what makes them "stable" kernels. Which seems increasingly not to be happening with the upstream kernel stable trees, because it's a lot of work.

As a sysadmin my desire for "stable" anything is (almost) no regressions, and some fixes for critical issues. Almost by definition with a preference for stability (ie, availability/reliability) over changes.

Ewen


Is it time for open processors?

Posted Feb 19, 2019 22:53 UTC (Tue) by lkcl (guest, #60496)
In reply to: Is it time for open processors? by excors
Parent article: Is it time for open processors?

> Can you realistically have an OoO CPU without speculative execution?

you can. the ability of out-of-order instructions to be delayed (stopping them from writing to the register file) permits them to also be cancelled entirely.

the combined ability of cancellation and prevention of commit is what permits speculation and branch prediction, as well as something called "precise exceptions" to be added. none of those features *have* to be added, they are each separately and individually optional: they just happen to be based on the same fundamentals.


PostgreSQL's fsync() surprise

Posted Feb 19, 2019 22:39 UTC (Tue) by nybble41 (subscriber, #55106)
In reply to: PostgreSQL's fsync() surprise by dvdeug
Parent article: PostgreSQL's fsync() surprise

> Of what interest is a portable program that is not useful?

It's not a matter of either/or. Programs should be both portable *and* useful.

> A user can expect that qsort sorts, but can they expect that it does so reasonably quickly? How often can you call fsync to maintain a reasonable balance between speed and safety? That's never going to be defined by the standard...

Why not? Standards do sometimes specify things like algorithmic complexity. C doesn't specify that for qsort(), unfortunately, but C++ does require std::sort() to be O(n log n) in the number of comparisons. What constitutes a "reasonable balance" is up to the user, but there is no reason in principle why there couldn't be a standard for "filesystems useable with PostgreSQL" which defines similar timing requirements for fsync().


POP?

Posted Feb 19, 2019 21:11 UTC (Tue) by Herve5 (guest, #115399)
In reply to: POP? by rahulsundaram
Parent article: Geary 0.13.0 released

Ah, I didn't see it this way, indeed.
But when writing that I 'have' archives I thought of a more restrictive way of 'having' : for me gigabytes of data on the google servers aren't really mine. They are accessible as long as google doesn't change mind, and I'm old enough to have seen such kind of changes more than once. I admit my point of view is restrictive...


POP?

Posted Feb 19, 2019 20:51 UTC (Tue) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683)
In reply to: POP? by rahulsundaram
Parent article: Geary 0.13.0 released

> As far as general consumers go, I haven't seen a single person use a dedicated mail client anymore for personal use.

I know more users of dedicated mail clients than users of web-mail, even within the subgroup of plain normal computer users.

Maybe it has something to do with age. With a mail client you are not subjected to permanent change of UI and can use your capacity for learning to something of intrinsic value. The reluctance to cope with often relearning how to use a *tool* seems increasing with the shortening of the remaining span of life.


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 19, 2019 19:49 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

Oh, that is amazing! It's not just computer software that has surprising edge-cases... the law does too, apparently.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 19:38 UTC (Tue) by jccleaver (guest, #127418)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by NYKevin
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

> Frankly, I agree with the kernel here. Shebang lines are a convenience, and more importantly they're intended for use by the (userspace components of the) distro, and are accidentally useful to end users, but random other developers have (IMHO) no business writing shebang lines.

That's... kind of insane. Is this point of view common? That might explain all the scripts I see written by devs (often java devs, but not always) that are kept chmod 644 and have no shebang.

The first thing I do is make them executable and put the proper shebang in, unless there's some specific external $PATH call I need to wrap into it, which is just dumb... or weird.

This actually feels like a decent shibboleth among *nix admins and... non-*nix developers.


Wrong interpreter

Posted Feb 19, 2019 19:11 UTC (Tue) by rfunk (subscriber, #4054)
In reply to: Wrong interpreter by dona73110
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Wherever the shell fallback is implemented, the result is the same, so that seems irrelevant unless you're also going to patch all the shells that implement that fallback.


Wrong interpreter

Posted Feb 19, 2019 19:00 UTC (Tue) by dona73110 (guest, #113155)
In reply to: Wrong interpreter by rfunk
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

> So if I understand the situation correctly, this patch was intended to avoid *maybe* getting the wrong interpreter (a situation that Unix users have known about for some 40 or 50 years) by falling back to the default shell -- which is almost certainly the wrong interpreter!

That's what corbet said but it's not exactly what's happening - if you look at the patch there's no default to a shell, it just returns an error that the file was not executable.

The shell is the one that takes this "can't execute" error as a cue to interpret the file shell instead :-x


Typo

Posted Feb 19, 2019 18:49 UTC (Tue) by tome (subscriber, #3171)
In reply to: Typo by corbet
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Uh oh, I cluttered the clutter... and now this. I'd best be quiet.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 18:49 UTC (Tue) by dona73110 (guest, #113155)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by TheJH
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Yeah, that line

>By default, the interpreter is a shell, which will interpret the file as a shell script

is not really correct; it's a shell convention but the kernel will definitely _not_ use a default interpreter if the file does not start with #!


Television sets

Posted Feb 19, 2019 18:34 UTC (Tue) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
In reply to: Television sets by jccleaver
Parent article: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

I don't know if such things actually exist (I'm only in the market for dumb screens, so it's a meaningless comparison for me), but they are Android and it has such a flag. If it is exposed in actually shipped devices is something to research.


Wrong interpreter

Posted Feb 19, 2019 18:30 UTC (Tue) by rweikusat2 (subscriber, #117920)
In reply to: Wrong interpreter by NAR
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

-*- language -*- close to the start of some text file causes Emacs to switch to the major mode for language.


Television sets

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:59 UTC (Tue) by jccleaver (guest, #127418)
In reply to: Television sets by mathstuf
Parent article: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

It doesn't let you disable that? JFC, that would be a deal breaker for me...


Patent exhaustion and open source

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:43 UTC (Tue) by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698)
Parent article: Patent exhaustion and open source

[me giggling then applauding]
That's awesome! Thanks you for writing this up, and thanks to Van Lindberg for giving the presentation!

I was somewhat familiar with patent exhaustion, but I definitely was not this well-informed about it.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:21 UTC (Tue) by Anssi (subscriber, #52242)
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

> If, however, the file starts with the characters "#!", the remainder of the first line will be treated as the name of the interpreter to use (and possibly arguments to be passed to that interpreter).

Well, only a single argument, not "arguments".


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:21 UTC (Tue) by DrHyde (guest, #130508)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by dbaker
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

I believe that http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/vaxocentrism.html applies, except with modern Linux instead of VAX.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:02 UTC (Tue) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by epa
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Not really? Assuming it's a one-time adjustment during install, you just prepend, and in many cases you don't even need BEGIN:

#! /nix/store/mbwav8kz8b3y471wjsybgzw84mrh4js9-perl-5.28.1/bin/perl
use lib qw(
/nix/store/x6yyav38jgr924nkna62q3pkp0dgmzlx-perl5.28.1-File-Slurp-9999.25/lib/perl5/site_perl
/nix/store/ha8v67sl8dac92r9z07vzr4gv1y9nwqz-perl5.28.1-Net-DBus-1.1.0/lib/perl5/site_perl
/nix/store/dcrkvnjmwh69ljsvpbdjjdnqgwx90a9d-perl5.28.1-XML-Parser-2.44/lib/perl5/site_perl
/nix/store/rmji88k2zz7h4zg97385bygcydrf2q8h-perl5.28.1-XML-Twig-3.52/lib/perl5/site_perl
);

possibly adjusted to deal with the subtle differences between BEGIN { unshift(@INC, 'foo' }, use lib qw(foo), and -Ifoo--I remember there are some, but I don't remember what they are.

IIRC Perl 4 doesn't have 'use' or 'BEGIN', so perl4 definitely needs the shebang hack...but perl4 also implements a lot of bizarre stuff like "execute perl embedded in non-MIME-encoded email message", and...not the shebang hack (or at least it's not documented). Perl4 and NixOS are separated by a decade, so I doubt perl4's limitations had much to do with NixOS's design; however, early-2000's bugs in the Perl5 implementation could have been a problem for a project starting in 2003 (I know it was a problem with several of mine!).

Anyway, the answer I was looking for is apparently "only Perl and Guile do that, and NixOS does it for historical reasons, and they're going to stop now."


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 17:01 UTC (Tue) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by brooksmoses
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

> However, a shebang line is not reliably portable

I, for one, would prefer to solve that problem.

i.e. have a namespace that I can reference from portable scripts, like "#!/prefix/org/python/python/2.7.5", where the python installation puts in as many symlinks as required to accurately state the level of backward compatibility achieved.


Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

Posted Feb 19, 2019 16:59 UTC (Tue) by tdz (subscriber, #58733)
In reply to: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia by nix
Parent article: Avoiding the coming IoT dystopia

I see what you mean, but which other organization is vendor-neutral *and* has the necessary budget?


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 16:46 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by NAR
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

No, that is not what /usr/bin/env was invented for. /usr/bin/env was invented for setting up different environment variables - that's why it's called "env."


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 16:36 UTC (Tue) by rweikusat2 (subscriber, #117920)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by NAR
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Sort-of. It does a PATH seach internally. This may find some perl executable and it may even be the one supposed to execute a particular script. However, it might as well not. perl is a fairly stable execution environment, however, it has its share of "Let's break working stuff because it's just WRONG!" (that it works, presumably :->) people who add essentially random code changes[*] whose purpose doesn't seem to be known to anyone.

[*] Eg, starting with perl 5.16, xs functions can't be loaded via Dynaloader anymore unless a new keyword is added to the existing code. The documentation makes it very clear that loading xs-functions via Dynaloader Is Just Wrong[tm], but there's no positive justification for the change.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 16:17 UTC (Tue) by tux3 (subscriber, #101245)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by tux3
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Oh I just realized what message you were replying to, my mistake.


The case of the supersized shebang

Posted Feb 19, 2019 16:16 UTC (Tue) by tux3 (subscriber, #101245)
In reply to: The case of the supersized shebang by smurf
Parent article: The case of the supersized shebang

Experimentaly "from __future import ..." seems to work fine with a #!, or even random comments before.
It seems python is happy as long as it's the first line actually executed, though the error message is confusing.



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