Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 21, 2024 17:00 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341)
In reply to: Core work still going on 33 years later by willy
Parent article: The long road to lazy preemption

It probably doesn't have a bearing on the computer side of the discussion, but the major differences in car UI over the decades has been the simplification of controls. In particular, there were some systems that had the human in the control loop, which were eventually automated (by mechanical means first, later electronic). Or there were controls to systems which required a number of co-ordinated steps, which are no longer necessary thanks to mechanical refinements.

E.g., if you got in a car from the 20s to early 30s, most people today would be unable to start it, for want of knowledge of 2 key engine controls (one of which was automated fairly early on - who here knows what the lever on the centre of the steering wheel [typically] did?; another was present until the 80s on many cars, a knob on the dash you had to pull in and out typically - I'll add a comment later with the answers ;) ). If they were able to start it, they might well damage the engine. They would also struggle to change gear without damaging the car.

UI has gotten simpler, and details hidden. A driver from the 20s would probably find it easier to get comfortable driving a modern car, than a modern driver getting into a car from 100 years ago - bit more to learn. The amazing speed of modern vehicles might be the 1 control thing the 20s driver might need to adapt to, but that wouldn't stop them driving at a slower speed.

Also, the maintenance of the car is now minimal compared to the earlier days.

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 13:44 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (6 responses)

And the systems/steps I had in mind are:

- Ignition advance:

This used to be something that had to be manually adjusted as you drove, to suit the engine speed, warmth and mixture.

- Choke:

Manual adjustment of mixture (interacting with previous), particularly for engine start.

- double-declutching for gear changes:

Changing gear required pausing the gear change in neutral, letting the clutch engage again, and matching the engine speed to the drive-shaft (either
by letting the engine speed fall a little, if changing up; or blipping the throttle, if changing down - often while continuing to hold the brake pedal),
before disengaging the clutch again and completing the gear change.

(Apparently truck drivers in the USA still have to do this on many models of tractor units).

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 16:17 UTC (Tue) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (5 responses)

You missed a couple more important details; the modern 2 or 3 pedal layout was not yet the standard in the 1920s, and some cars even then had the throttle as a lever on the steering wheel, rather than a pedal. And the pedals might well be gear selection, with possibly a foot brake, possibly not. The clutch could be a pedal, but it might also be a hand-operated lever, and even if it's a pedal, it might need lifting with your foot instead of pressing.

It's not until the 1940s that the industry finally settles on the modern control scheme.

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 16:21 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (4 responses)

That could well be. I don't know. It was my dad who was the old car nut - not me.

The 1927 Austin 7 he once had, which I've driven, already had the familiar 3 pedal layout. The clutch was more like a button though. Very hard to get used to. So that layout already existed in the 20s.

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 16:26 UTC (Tue) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (3 responses)

The modern layout existed, but (e.g.) Fords from the 1920s had a mix of layouts - indeed, a Model T and a Model A had different control schemes, and some of the things I mentioned that now seem odd were used by different 1920s Ford models (foot pedals for gear selection, lifting the clutch not pressing it).

If you're used to that sort of array of different possibilities, where you need to read the fine manual before trying to drive because there's so many options, learning how to drive a modern car isn't that hard; just work out how the modern control map to what you expect, and complain because the car does timing advance, choking etc for you. But (as evidenced by people who can drive an automatic transmission, but can't drive a manual transmission) going the other way is harder - you have to do more things that a modern car does for you.

And I've not driven anything without a modern control layout - I've only seen them in museums with my grandfather, who wanted to show me the cars he dreamt about being able to own when he was a child.

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 16:42 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (2 responses)

I'm not familiar with old US cars. My dad has had a variety of old European cars. Mostly English, but he's had Citroen Traction-Avant too (which is one of the coolest looking cars ever IMO - and surprisingly modern in design and build). He had some kind of 1920s Rolls-Royce at one point, a Phantom I think - if only he'd kept that one, would be worth loads today (he loved swapping cars)! I don't remember the controls of that, I was little - though I don't remember it being weird per se. I could ask him. ;)

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 16:50 UTC (Tue) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (1 responses)

These were all models that my English grandfather had heard about as a child and really wanted at the time, but could never afford - he was a serious car nut.

But that does lead to a serious point; it isn't unusual for different countries to have kept different standards from the past, even though they "could" unify with the rest of the world. For example, on pedal cycles, some countries put the front brake on the left lever, while others put it on the right lever. Arguably, the only reason this didn't happen with the motor car is that we had a large crowd of ex-military drivers in the late 1940s who all knew the same standard no matter where in the world they were going back to, and so everyone settled on one standard.

Core work still going on 33 years later

Posted Oct 22, 2024 18:17 UTC (Tue) by joib (subscriber, #8541) [Link]

> it isn't unusual for different countries to have kept different standards from the past, even though they "could" unify with the rest of the world.

Case in point, the International System of Units (SI) is adopted by almost the entire world, except Myanmar, Liberia, and some other country whose name escapes me at the moment.