Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Posted Oct 11, 2024 5:46 UTC (Fri) by roc (subscriber, #30627)In reply to: Wrong solution to the wrong problem by milesrout
Parent article: The Open Source Pledge: peer pressure to pay maintainers
> Analogously, you don't have to go and pay a whole lot of money to some computer science researcher because you use an algorithm he devised and published decades ago in your product.
Historically, most computer science researchers got paid in various ways --- in many cases, through government programs.
Posted Oct 12, 2024 8:12 UTC (Sat)
by milesrout (subscriber, #126894)
[Link] (4 responses)
That said, funding people that have already scratched their itches to expand and maintain their projects probably isn't likely to be too harmful.
> Historically, most computer science researchers got paid in various ways --- in many cases, through government programs.
I don't think this is relevant at all. The point of my post is that the idea of programmes like the "Open Source Pledge" is to put social pressure on software businesses to give money in a certain way to a certain type of cause. I don't think that in this case they're solving the right problem. I also think the solution is a bit offensive. I don't think it's right to try to create social pressure when they're not doing anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with "taking advantage" of a public good without contributing back. That's the whole point of free software!
Posted Oct 12, 2024 9:07 UTC (Sat)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link]
Sure. The problem is that in some areas, the itches are too deep and/or require too much specialized knowledge and/or professional training / education.
For instance, consider why we don't have an open-source drafting program that an architect might want to use professionally. (No, FreeCAD doesn't count.)
Posted Oct 14, 2024 4:33 UTC (Mon)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link]
For most people, if they can't monetise their free software project then it has to remain a part-time occupation at most while they work a paid full-time job to support themselves. That is problematic, because a lot of valuable projects demand more effort than that. Where would we be if Linus had to hold down a full-time not-Linux job and could only work on Linux during evenings and weekends when he wasn't too tired?
I've been around a long time and I've seen very few cases of talented but venal software developers messing up projects they joined "for the wrong reasons". You get problematic contributors but they're much more often motivated by pride than money.
Posted Oct 14, 2024 13:51 UTC (Mon)
by raven667 (subscriber, #5198)
[Link] (1 responses)
I do too, I'm pragmatic about it but my preference is toward FOSS whenever it meets requirements.
> I don't think funding it is necessarily a good way to encourage that, in practice. Most good free software comes from people wanting to scratch itches
Everyone doing FOSS work is funded in some way, developers aren't homeless monks living in communes, they have jobs, they eat food, sleep under a roof, which costs money. So the question is _who's_ itch is being scratched, often the case is that its an _employer_, Linux kernel is a perfect example of that, the Linux Foundation is a vendor consortium where large private corporations coordinate their efforts.
> I don't think it's right to try to create social pressure when they're not doing anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with "taking advantage" of a public good without contributing back. That's the whole point of free software!
Public good doesn't come about magically, it's intentionally created, subsidized and maintained or it atrophies and goes away, at some level it's self-destructive for large corporations to extract large monetary value from freely-provided software without maintaining the conditions that allow that software to be created in the first place. Putting social pressure on takers (or legal pressure like the GPL) to encourage them to contribute to the well-being of the environment that allows them to profit is the mildest form of pressure there is, a stronger form would tax profits at a level which pays for UBI so that developers really could work on whatever they wanted, scratch whatever itch, take risks, without worrying about their standard of living.
No software is free to *make* as that devalues human labor which is not provided for free, its always paid for in some way, we can be explicit and intentional about how that happens.
Posted Oct 14, 2024 18:19 UTC (Mon)
by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
[Link]
Posted Oct 12, 2024 13:14 UTC (Sat)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
And, given that a lot of that money is/was funnelled through universities, how much of it is/was of practical use?
Ivory tower research is all well and good, but at the moment it seems to be fuelling gas-guzzling data centres producing AI artificial stupidity results and the like, and probably always has. My first experience with "intelligent" web search engines like Jeeves et al, was to scream at them "stop giving me more of the same, you've screwed up, that's not what I'm looking for !!!". And the more I tried to vary my search terms, it seemed like they tried ever harder to come up with the same results !!!
The end result of most government funded research seems to be a paper and a Ph.D. and then it just gets filed and forgotten. Not saying it wasn't money well spent - education is never wasted - but so much of this seems to be abandoned once it's served its purpose of making the researcher more employable.
And how much of this research is simply discovering the same thing over and over? Somebody pointed me at a paper on "cuckoo hashing" from the ?mid?-90s. Only for it to trigger the reaction in me "hey, that's what that early-80s paper was describing, except it didn't give it a name".
DARPA / seedcorn funding seems a far better bet. If somebody comes to you and says "hey this idea could change the world, I just need some help", this is where you provide sponsorship and say "it needs to be Open Source". And then let them divert funds to other people to help them ... (properly accounted for, of course).
Cheers,
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wrong solution to the wrong problem
Wol