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Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Posted Oct 2, 2024 22:43 UTC (Wed) by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
In reply to: Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour by raven667
Parent article: An update on gccrs development

> I generally agree with you that the conventional wisdom advocating for standards and alternate implementations is far more useful and relevant in a world of competing proprietary implementations, and provides less value when the reference implementation is widely used open source/free software, ...

Exactly that. Standards were critical for compatibility and competition in the _old_ days before: 1. Free software, 2. The Internet, 3. Test-driven development, 4. Continuous Integration.

Even in the old days standards were not so great: just look at the C/C++ mess of undefined/implementation-defined behaviors[*], standards always trailing implementations, ugly politics (looking at you W3C), etc.

[*] plenty of elaboration and examples in other comments.

But in today's era, it is now possible to have a free implementation with an extensive test-suite, fast-paced CI and everything just a click way. THAT is better than some old-fashioned, designed-by-committee standard. Some behavior is ambiguous? Just discuss it, add documentation and a new test and problem solved!

"The standard is this [proprietary] implementation" used to really suck. But now it can really rock when done properly.

This being said, if some people see value in maintaining a 2nd class implementation, then agreed: "all the more power to them". As long as they don't pretend they're equal and defer to the reference implementation when in doubt then everything is fine. I think this is more or less what happened with Java BTW - and despite Oracle!


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Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Posted Oct 2, 2024 22:58 UTC (Wed) by viro (subscriber, #7872) [Link] (1 responses)

Surely I'm not the only one to remember the chorus whinging about The Inherent Evil(tm) of clang/llvm? Complete with "that would just drain gcc contributors pool", "fracture everything", etc. - as well as "they are morally obliged to work on X rather than Y, 'cuz we sais so!!!", nevermind that advocates involved had not been contributing themselves to either project.

Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Posted Oct 2, 2024 23:57 UTC (Wed) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

LLVM has been a deliberate (and successful) attempt to avoid the GPL and its "copyleft". That unsurprisingly upset FSF zealots very much. It's not surprising they threw everything they could at it.

The other way round, "cloning" Apache to GPL should be much more "peaceful", technical and rational :-)


Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Posted Oct 3, 2024 9:01 UTC (Thu) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link] (1 responses)

> Some behavior is ambiguous? Just discuss it, add documentation and a new test and problem solved!

How does one find the ambiguous behaviour unless you try to reimplement it from the documentation?

Documentation is written in language for humans and so by its very nature ambiguous.

Clearly delinating quirks from intended behaviour

Posted Oct 3, 2024 13:45 UTC (Thu) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link]

Typically: when your code does not behave as you expected. Then you check the documentation and you find a gap or problem there.


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