Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Sep 12, 2024 11:30 UTC (Thu) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683)
In reply to: Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable] by Cyberax
Parent article: A mess in the Python community

> > For me the primary meaning of "sanctioned" is permitted.
>
> "United States sanctioned Russian oil"

Exactly the point of Wol's post.

Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Sep 12, 2024 13:38 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (4 responses)

> > > For me the primary meaning of "sanctioned" is permitted.

> > "United States sanctioned Russian oil"

> Exactly the point of Wol's post.

Eggsackerly. Firstly, whatever it might mean in American, it's very unidiomatic English. What an English person would read is "The United States sanctioned Russian oil imports". That VERY CLEARLY defaults to "permitted". At which point, you realise that hang on, Russia is in the West's bad books, and that can't be right - triggering a double take. And then you realise - as I said - that what the American writer wrote is NOT what the English reader read.

If you want to write it in English "The United States embargoed Russian oil imports", which is clear and unambiguous. Or if you want to use the word "sanction" you have to use the noun - "The United States put sanctions on Russian oil".

Cheers,
Wol

Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Sep 12, 2024 16:05 UTC (Thu) by devnull13 (subscriber, #18626) [Link]

Apparently Merriam-Webster reads lwn. 🙂 https://x.com/merriamwebster/status/1834233042317017163?s...

Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Sep 12, 2024 16:20 UTC (Thu) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link]

"Sanction" is the official term used by OFAC and other arms of the US government. See for example https://ofac.treasury.gov/sanctions-list-service (and all other parts of OFAC's website, for that matter - the word is pervasive throughout). "Embargo" is also not extensive enough - it implies that the US is merely refusing to trade with Russia, but sanctions are transitive (the US will not trade with anybody who trades with the sanctioned entity). So "sanction" is by far the least-bad word for this state of affairs, as it is official and alternative terms fail to fully capture the meaning.

Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Sep 12, 2024 19:38 UTC (Thu) by Jandar (subscriber, #85683) [Link]

The root of the meaning of sanction is holy decree. So it is neither a permission nor a prohibition. "X is sanctioned" is only only a strengthening of "X" by highest authority. From this point of view "United States sanctioned Russian oil" is missing the vital component what about "Russian oil" is sanctioned. Is a ban or a sale or something completely different? It doesn't have to be permission or prohibition, "It is sanctioned strawberry ice-cream is the best" is another valid usage, abbreviating it as "It is sanctioned strawberry ice-cream" is obvious nonsense, "United States sanctioned Russian oil" isn't better in that regard.

That is the problem of most usages of the word sanction, the usage is incomplete and the missing piece must be guessed. Different (e.g. UK vs USA) people have different preferences while guessing. To be unambiguous in communication one should make the object of "sanction" a complete statement and not assume the recipient makes the same guess about permission or prohibition.

Predictable confusion in English variations [WAS Predictable]

Posted Jan 2, 2025 8:22 UTC (Thu) by Baylink (guest, #755) [Link]

Yeah, but embargo and sanction don't mean the same thing there I don't think.

An embargo means that American companies aren't permitted to buy Russian oil. A sanction means we don't want other countries our allies to buy Russian oil either.

I'm pretty sure those are the common USAdian interpretations of those two words.