Zuckerberg: Open Source AI Is the Path Forward
AI has more potential than any other modern technology to increase human productivity, creativity, and quality of life – and to accelerate economic growth while unlocking progress in medical and scientific research. Open source will ensure that more people around the world have access to the benefits and opportunities of AI, that power isn't concentrated in the hands of a small number of companies, and that the technology can be deployed more evenly and safely across society.There is an ongoing debate about the safety of open source AI models, and my view is that open source AI will be safer than the alternatives. I think governments will conclude it's in their interest to support open source because it will make the world more prosperous and safer.
Of course, whether Llama is truly open source is debatable at best, but it
is more open than many of the alternatives.
Posted Jul 23, 2024 17:39 UTC (Tue)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link] (2 responses)
It's kinda funny of Zuckerberg to be talking about "power [that] isn't concentrated in the hands of a small number of companies"...
Posted Jul 23, 2024 17:49 UTC (Tue)
by DanilaBerezin (guest, #168271)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jul 23, 2024 17:59 UTC (Tue)
by intelfx (subscriber, #130118)
[Link]
Posted Jul 23, 2024 18:24 UTC (Tue)
by atnot (subscriber, #124910)
[Link] (4 responses)
The core of FOSS, to me, has always been a rebellion against people telling us our way of working shouldn't work: Humans are competitive, there would be no innovation without strict intellectual property, progress can only be driven by rare geniuses with vast power and wealth, the market is the only way to distribute resources and responsibilities, etc. And yet despite that, it doesn't just work, it works better. So much better that even corporations can't ignore it.
This has all of the language of FOSS, it uses the arguments we use. But instead we have a project that's run by one of the fiercly anticompetitive monopolists, under their top down control, which only they can train and only they can even really run at scale, released merely to use the community as a cudgel against their competitors. With the ultimate purpose but to launder copyright through a big machine that overwhelms the joy of human creation with an endless slop of predictive goop.
And sure, we can say to ourselves "well this isn't _true_ FOSS". But does that change anything? Perhaps, if this is what's being said with it, the rhetoric of vague appeals to "freedom" and "openness" has outlived it's usefulness.
Posted Jul 23, 2024 21:02 UTC (Tue)
by dilinger (subscriber, #2867)
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Posted Jul 23, 2024 21:11 UTC (Tue)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link]
There never was any such “FOSS movement”. Free software camp and open source camp were always two distinct factions, even before Open Source have decided to “invent a way to market free software to corporations”. But the two movements are closely related. Yes. That's the common part. Even when free software and open source movements believe in different things they both follow them faithfully. Note that this rant, while not uncommon and short is already self-contradictionary. Intellectual property is, by definition, a government-granted monopoly thus if market is the only way to distribute resources and responsibilities then “intellectual property” shouldn't exist for the only justification for it's existence is perceived failure of pure market to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. It's internally inconsistent position to promote the market as infallible and simultaneously, claim that one of the primary tools that is supposed to fix the market failure is Ok, too. Well, if people may subvert the regulatory tool that is supposed to promote the Progress and use it stop said progress, instead, then why wouldn't they apply the same trick to other things? Practically any principle, pushed to it's logical conclusion, starts becoming self-defeating (thing about how FSF, in it's attempt to push for more freedom, started promoting locked-down devices, e.g.) Corporations just push principles beyond the point where they become self-defeating consciously and knowingly.
Posted Jul 23, 2024 22:27 UTC (Tue)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (1 responses)
But make no mistake, "Open Source" was about exploitation from the beginning: it's about giving these ersatz emergent lifeforms inroads to colonise a space that was by and for real people, where interpersonal connections were once the main currency, to strip mine it and extract the surplus value. Without a real person on the other end of the line, when we are no longer writing and sharing software for the benefit of each other, and with the communication channel itself nowadays being interdicted and sterilised to keep people compartmentalised, that unwritten purpose for participating in FOSS has been completely undermined and perverted.
You can contribute to a billion-dollar Open Source project for years and the only thing that will so much as remember your email address is the recruiter spambot advertising fake job listings. It's a sucker's game. And becoming a militant FSF disciple won't provide relief either: it has never been as simple as libre vs proprietary. Software with an obvious master retains that power imbalance even in the presence of a "100% Vegan [A]GPLv3" sticker. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to try and get emacs and gcc to play nice together.
The core of "Free Software" can survive only if people start making an effort to reclaim it and perform some serious chemotherapy. But that is done via empathy, willpower, and clarity of purpose — with the sheer number of undesirable orbiters in FOSS who've been hypnotised to soil their pants violently upon encountering text documents asking them not to be raging bigots, others cheerleading over which alien mold spore they want to be the next master of their schemaless DB or containerization stack like a sportsball league, and a pervasive cult of "free speech" (and negative peace) that ensures the worst aspects will always grow until the rest of the room suffocates — realistically, this movement can do nothing from here on out but collapse under its own weight.
The future of free software will have to happen elsewhere, built by different people, who will be much more scrupulous who they let in.
Posted Jul 25, 2024 6:10 UTC (Thu)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link]
May I quote you? As in "things I'd like to say if I had the necessary eloquence"?
Posted Jul 23, 2024 19:11 UTC (Tue)
by josh (subscriber, #17465)
[Link] (3 responses)
The question of "is a set of weights enough to make something open" is a source of open debate. But independent of that, the *license* of Llama is unquestionably proprietary.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 19:02 UTC (Wed)
by Heretic_Blacksheep (guest, #169992)
[Link] (2 responses)
So Zuck either doesn't know what open source really is, or he's being deliberately deceptive. Perhaps both. The former doesn't exclude the later. Given Zuck's & Meta's public history, it's easy to conclude this is a deliberate obfuscation and he personally doesn't care what "open source" is, only that it's another buzzword he can use. FOSS washing?
The source is available to view, and the models can be audited, but you can't exercise all the freedoms associated with FOSS. For some, that's enough. But any businesses really should beware of those wishy-washy non-compete clauses.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 19:27 UTC (Wed)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
You can run LLMs with about 1000 lines of pure C code without any external dependencies.
Posted Jul 31, 2024 7:12 UTC (Wed)
by cpitrat (subscriber, #116459)
[Link]
An appropriate open source/free license applicable to machine learning models would have a vocabulary that encodes these equivalences.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 1:59 UTC (Wed)
by zev (subscriber, #88455)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jul 31, 2024 7:20 UTC (Wed)
by cpitrat (subscriber, #116459)
[Link]
[1] in which an unhealthy disregard for ethics and humanity was probably at least as important as their personal talent
[2] I'm not blaming LWN here, this particular article is just a blog post highlight like there are many and is on-topic for LWN.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 5:45 UTC (Wed)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link]
Given that LLMs chatbots are bullshit machines [2], seeing the CEO of a company spewing bullshit to promoting their own is... exhilarating.
Frankfurt's "On Bullshit" [3] is on my desk, in my reading queue.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Law
Posted Jul 24, 2024 8:15 UTC (Wed)
by dvandeun (guest, #24273)
[Link]
Posted Jul 24, 2024 9:02 UTC (Wed)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (2 responses)
We probably haven't reached that "sufficiently powerful" AI yet, although when the full costs of deepfake scamming are eventually accounted for, we might conclude that threshold has already been crossed. I don't know when we'll reach that threshold, and perhaps it will take a very long time. But at some point we'll have to get off that open-source train, or we'll regret it.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 11:57 UTC (Wed)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link]
Um, the science of nukes and bioweapons is _very_ widely known. The difficulty is in the consistent production of various components at scale. Not unlike the LLMs of today. And not unlike semiconductor fabrication too, I might add.
Posted Jul 28, 2024 8:25 UTC (Sun)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link]
How are Facebook, Google, Microsoft and the other outfits of surveillance capitalism behaving differently from "rogue individuals"?
If anything, they are more dangerous and ruthless.
There are enough reports "out there" showing how they miss their carbon targets, exploit people in Africa in "content moderation" shops to the point of PTSD and so on.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 14:02 UTC (Wed)
by amit (subscriber, #1274)
[Link]
So this current talk of "open source AI" only talks about the programs written in point 3 above, but completely ignore the actual content all of the AI is based on in point 2. No damn is given to copyrights. In fact, companies blatantly abuse their "big company" status to infringe on those rights and maybe then settle out of court if sued.
Comparing all this to the FOSS movement is disingenuous. The key aspect of generative AI is the source data that the AI-based data is generated from - without the content from 2, none of the generative AI stuff would work. So only calling attention to the "open source" programs is just smoke and mirrors.
Now - if we were to use ethically, copyright-respecting data at source - even just intra-company data for that company's own internal use - with these open source models - all this talk about open source models works fine. I suspect, though, that after a few iterations within a training model, it'll be easy to lose the source material in a "trusting trust" sort of a way that it'll be difficult to point to how ethically sourced or actually Free the model was to begin with.
Posted Jul 24, 2024 21:58 UTC (Wed)
by kristian.paul0 (subscriber, #119897)
[Link]
Zuckerberg v. small number of companies
Zuckerberg v. small number of companies
Zuckerberg v. small number of companies
What even does "Open Source" mean at this point?
What even does "Open Source" mean at this point?
> Articles like this make me wonder what FOSS even is. Not as an abbreviation, but as a movement.
What even does "Open Source" mean at this point?
What even does "Open Source" mean at this point?
What even does "Open Source" mean at this point?
"debatable"
"debatable"
"debatable"
"debatable"
- the source code of the model is comparable to the source code of the assembly
- the weights are comparable to the executable/machine code
- the training data is comparable to the source code (and you may consider it generated source code, in which case the scripts scraping the web / downloading databases to generate it would be source code generators)
- the training procedure is comparable to the build system configuration (e.g makefiles)
Enlightenment bestowed upon us at last
Enlightenment bestowed upon us at last
Beautiful
[2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10676-024-09775-5
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
Don't be so negative
Sooner or later we will need limits on open source AI
Sooner or later we will need limits on open source AI
Sooner or later we will need limits on open source AI
What's the open source in AI?
Training data