Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 9:40 UTC (Fri) by donald.buczek (subscriber, #112892)
In reply to: Regulatory solution by khim
Parent article: Python grapples with Apple App Store rejections

> Are you even sure that something that lets you download apps from Apple and then without the ability to automatically upgrade them deserves the name third-party app store?

No, I have no idea how this is implemented. I've just remembered the news that Apple should be forced to allow other app stores and then searched and found this announcement. I just assumed "other app store" would mean independent things like F-Droid. This is not the case?

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 12:15 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (7 responses)

> This is not the case?

Judge for yourself. Just look on the picture and read the story.

EU told Apple that everyone should be able to download app from third-party web site. And Apple delivered! App really comes from third-party web site. Specifically signed copy that Apple signed and gave you permission to install on 1 (one) device.

And they charge 0.5$ for the privilege. Only if you are big and successful, of course. But if you are not then you have to provide Apple a stand-by letter of credit in the amount of €1,000,000 from a financial institution that’s at least A-rated or equivalent by S&P, Fitch, or Moody’s, and maintain that standby letter of credit as long as your alternative app marketplace is in operation. It wouldn't be used, don't worry, it's only there “just in case”, you see.

And since Apple only gives you right to instal 1 (one) copy of app on 1 (one) device and you pay $0.5 for the privilege any update requires the end user to start the download process to save you money! Perfect, isn't?

> I just assumed "other app store" would mean independent things like F-Droid.

Well. There were two goal Apple wanted to achieve:

Independent App Store should look and act like an independent app store
Apple should control everything, earn money from each install and be able to reject request for installation for any reason.

They achieved that.

Whether to call that “an independent app store” is open question. Many say that this is not an independent app store, but this would require another court process, of course, and the end result would be equally silly.

Ultimately the only fair treatment of Apple is two-fold:

Decide how fast Apple needs to be outlawed in your country and there would be law that would forbid to buy and sell Apple devices (everyone accepts that such things take time not to cause immediate riots).
Ensure that you are moving law toward that goal steadily and consistently.

Anything else is absolute foolishness, none of independent countries should accept things like that. Well, maybe US is an exception since Apple can be controlled by various security agencies using internally planted people. But for everyone else it's either allowing Apple iOS devices or staying independent country, these things couldn't exist simultaneously. MacOS is moving in the same direction, BTW, it's a just a tiny bit behind.

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 12:50 UTC (Fri) by donald.buczek (subscriber, #112892) [Link] (6 responses)

You're right, that's disgusting.

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 13:24 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (5 responses)

If the regulators agree with you, Apple are likely to find things get worse next time round the loop ...

You play fair by the regulators, they play fair with you.

You try to game the rules, the regulators will do the same.

Cheers,
Wol

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 13:56 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (4 responses)

> You play fair by the regulators, they play fair with you.
You try to game the rules, the regulators will do the same.

Sure, but why would that mean that Apple does the wrong thing? Apple Store brings around $100 billions per year to Apple, significant percent of that from EU, which means it would bring $1 trillion or so before collapse of EU in 10, after which EU would stop bringing billions to Apple, one way or another.

And if instead of fighting for these $100 billion (and spending maybe $10 billion on courts and fines) Apple would “play fair” before collapse of EU the it would get $0.5 trillion which is much less than $1 trillion.

Now, if you assume a different scenario, where EU doesn't collapse in 10 years and continue to bring billions for 100 years then sure, “playing fair” would be better, but how do you know EU would survive, let alone thrive, for 100 years?

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 17:01 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> Now, if you assume a different scenario, where EU doesn't collapse in 10 years and continue to bring billions for 100 years then sure, “playing fair” would be better, but how do you know EU would survive, let alone thrive, for 100 years?

No. I'm assuming a different scenario where that doesn't matter. If Apple is perceived as gaming the rules, then the rules will change. In a lot less than 10 years. And in a way that is likely to be - shall we say - painful ... depending on how seriously the regulators are pissed off.

Cheers,
Wol

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 17:26 UTC (Fri) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link]

> If Apple is perceived as gaming the rules, then the rules will change. In a lot less than 10 years.

How do you know? Apple is gaming the rules the whole existence of Apple. It's, essentially, what makes Apple Apple.

Gaming the system is in Apple's DNA. Remember how Jobs swindled Wozniak before Apple even existed and paid $375 instead of $5000? That's how Apple operated it's whole life.

> And in a way that is likely to be - shall we say - painful ... depending on how seriously the regulators are pissed off.

I've heard these talks for decades, sorry. Nothing happens in a lot less than 10 years in European courts and Apple knows that.

And now, almost half-century after it was founded, you say that it would be punished for something it successfully did for half-century? Count me unimpressed. Sure, it would be punished, but so what? That's part of the business-plan and it works.

Just as one example: how long did it took for EU to make it use normal USB connector for it's phone?

Regulatory solution

Posted Jun 28, 2024 17:34 UTC (Fri) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link]

What about this fantasy of EU collapse? Someone has been feeding of russian propaganda?

Time to stop

Posted Jun 28, 2024 18:39 UTC (Fri) by jzb (editor, #7867) [Link]

Speculating on the collapse of the EU is well beyond the topic and not useful. It's not going to lead anywhere good, so let's stop here.