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BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 3:02 UTC (Sat) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
In reply to: BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog) by LtWorf
Parent article: BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Eh... I think this is a better illustration of the benefits of pragmatism. Linus happily used closed source software right up until it became a problem, and then replaced it with FOSS when it proved to be untenable. The kernel got several years of Linus's undivided attention out of that arrangement, and paid basically nothing in return (some shouting matches on LKML notwithstanding). Perhaps there is an argument that the world as a whole would have benefited from Git coming into existence earlier... but:

1. It is not our place to tell Linus what he should or should not work on. If you wanted Git to exist earlier, you should've done it yourself (or paid someone else to do it, which is exactly what some people did, hence BitMover's revenue stream for many years).
2. Linus has a finite amount of time in a day that he can spend on programming, project management, and related work. He spends a non-zero amount of that time on Git, which means he can't spend it on the kernel or anything else. So determining whether the early arrival of Git would have been better would require us to figure how the kernel's development path would have changed, assuming Linus had less time for it, and comparing that against the benefit of an early Git. This is not straightforward to calculate.
3. Would Linus have developed Git, if he had never seen BitKeeper? I mean, probably eventually *somebody* would have (Merkle trees were patented in 1979, so the necessary tech mostly already existed), and I think it is even reasonable to grant that that person could plausibly still have been Linus, but would that person have been Linus in 2002? If we suppose that BK does not get adopted, and Git does not get developed (by Linus or whoever else) until 2005 or later, then what happens to the kernel from 2002 to 2005?

TL;DR: Alt-history is a complicated exercise which usually lacks clear winners and losers, if you're doing it right.


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BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 4:38 UTC (Sat) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (8 responses)

"The kernel got several years of Linus's undivided attention out of that arrangement, and paid basically nothing in return"

Wrong. BitMover got some incredible feedback. I bet they even got more sales from the arrangement. They absolutely got something valuable.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 6:18 UTC (Sat) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (7 responses)

Sure, but that's not what I was getting at. What I mean to say is, it did not *cost* the kernel developers anything. BitMover got value out of it, but that was a non-zero-sum value. Both the kernel developers and BitMover benefited from the arrangement.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 6:58 UTC (Sat) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (6 responses)

The cost was unseen. There is always a cost. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

I can think of several.

* They did not negotiate a better license which would have avoided having to write git.

* They might have been able to get some sponsorship from BitMover, either $$$ or more workers.

* They surrendered control of their advertising image to BitMover.

They're all hypothetical but plausible.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 7:25 UTC (Sat) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (5 responses)

So in other words, the "cost" was BitMover deciding not to give them even more free stuff (incl. intangibles such as licensing terms), and/or making true statements in their advertising?

I'm not trying to argue, I genuinely don't understand how that can be characterized as a cost to the kernel developers.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 12:28 UTC (Sat) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (4 responses)

Opportunity cost? There's some econ 101 term for it.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 19:09 UTC (Sat) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (3 responses)

Opportunity costs arise when an alternative is foregone. There was no alternative where BitMover gave them more free stuff or a better license.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 25, 2024 19:58 UTC (Sat) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (2 responses)

There is always an alternative. They could have refused to use BitKeeper. They could have held out for a better license. They could have used one of the other up and coming distributed version control systems. They could have written their own sooner.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 26, 2024 6:49 UTC (Sun) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (1 responses)

If you're going to read the first part of the sentence and respond to it as if the rest was not there, then there is no point in continuing this conversation.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 26, 2024 12:56 UTC (Sun) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link]

Your second sentence says you knew that no alternative would be acceptable to BitMover. I listed alternatives. Now, personally I am glad for you, that you know what BitMover would and would not have accepted. Me, I am too ignorant to have such great knowledge of 19 year old events. So, please, accept my apologies for not realizing how much you knew.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 27, 2024 9:22 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

> Would Linus have developed Git, if he had never seen BitKeeper? I mean, probably eventually *somebody* would have (Merkle trees were patented in 1979, so the necessary tech mostly already existed)

Given that BitKeeper was Larry's reinvention of TeamWare - the internal DVCS at Sun Microsystems - but with a simple network daemon instead of NFS for the D part - it is indeed guaranteed someone else would have developed something similar. Many many engineers had worked at Sun and used Teamware (it continued to be used for OS/Net, the core Solaris repo, and other repos, internally until after 2005; I assume they switched to Hg after that at some point, as OpenSolaris did, but I don't know).

Again, Bitkeeper was a clone of an internal Sun Microsystems DVCS. Larry worked on an SCCS library that was used in TeamWare, but he did not invent TeamWare.

BitKeeper, Linux, and licensing disputes: How Linus wrote Git in 14 days (Graphite blog)

Posted May 27, 2024 10:24 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Correction, "internally until after 2005", the 2005 should be 2008.


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