Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
Posted Mar 17, 2024 14:40 UTC (Sun) by anselm (subscriber, #2796)In reply to: Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++ by mb
Parent article: Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
I think the user might be right.
If the user thinks they're “right” but the maintainer of the code disagrees, it is the user's privilege to fork the code. The user is not entitled to have the maintainer change the code, at no charge, to conform to the user's wishes, and the user most certainly does not get to hijack the original project by driving away the original maintainer.
The principle of free software is, you scratch your own itches. Scratching other people's itches, particularly for free, is entirely optional (even though some free-software maintainers take satisfaction from that, and if that happens, good for those other people). In fact, the whole idea behind free software in the first place is putting other people in a position where they can scratch their own itches and don't need to rely on anyone else to scratch those itches for them.
Posted Mar 17, 2024 14:52 UTC (Sun)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (5 responses)
Popular projects don't live in a vacuum. If a maintainer of a popular project makes decisions that many users disagree with, then the maintainer will have to live with the feedback.
Please go and take a look at the code. Some uses of unsafe were completely ridiculous.
>The principle of free software is, you scratch your own itches
That is only a very small part of it.
Posted Mar 17, 2024 16:45 UTC (Sun)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (4 responses)
I am sceptical that it is possible for an author to leave responses to PRs/CRs made on their own personal project that could justify a campaign of negative comments against them. A campaign apparently that included "death threats" and which the author felt included "abuse". How can an unreasonable response by an author to PRs on their own project justify anything _else_ but "Thanks for the code, I'll make those changes somewhere else myself"?
You keep saying those responses exist, can you show them?
The level of entitlement that is implied by what you are saying is completely off the scale.
Posted Mar 17, 2024 16:57 UTC (Sun)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (3 responses)
>included "death threats"
You surely have a link to that?
Posted Mar 18, 2024 15:07 UTC (Mon)
by paulj (subscriber, #341)
[Link] (2 responses)
"You alway face with rude and hate, everyone knows better how to build software, nobody wants to do home work and read docs and think a bit and very few provide any help. ... I started to receive complaints that docs are not updated and i have to go fix my shit. Encouraging. ... You felt betrayed after you put so much effort and then to hear all this shit comments, even if you understand that that is usual internet behavior."
https://github.com/fafhrd91/actix-web-postmortem
That is authoritative text on how the author felt. And I think we were all aware of that text before we started this discussion.
Now, your counter to this is that /his/ responses to the criticisms he received were unprofessional. I have asked for an example, twice now I think, but you've not given any, other than to claim I can find it if I look. Well, from reading around forums on this, the most heinous charge I can find levelled against the author is that he called a PoC change in a comment "boring":
http://web.archive.org/web/20200116231317/https://github....
I don't think /any/ response by an author, on their own issue tracker for their own personal project, could justify a campaign of "ostracism" (which in an online comment pretty much implies lots of toxic comments being left on various forums; from the target's own issue trackers, to reddit, etc. - i.e. abuse and bullying). I especially think that "this patch is boring" does not justify it.
The correct response is "Thanks for all your hard work on this code, and your generosity in open sourcing it - appreciate it, and I'll see about making my desired changes in my own version". Always really. At least, for anyone who is not a toxic ingrate.
If you had another comment in mind by the author, feel free to link to it.
Posted Mar 18, 2024 17:16 UTC (Mon)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (1 responses)
So? Maybe they are right?
> "nobody wants to do home work"
Also applies to the author.
> "and read docs and think a bit and very few provide any help."
Also applies to the author.
But it's Ok to have a different opinion.
> I have asked for an example, twice now I think, but you've not given any,
I said twice, that this has been posted already. I am not going to search the discussion threads for you.
> At least, for anyone who is not a toxic ingrate.
Do you realize that your definition of "toxic ingrate" also applies to yourself?
Posted Mar 18, 2024 18:13 UTC (Mon)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link]
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
That has nothing to do with "hijacking".
And so were his responses in the PRs trying to improve that code. Please look at it.
The major part of free software is collaboration, communication and technical improvements. All three of which the maintainer failed at, in the opinion of many users.
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++
You see, the author complains about stuff that he does, too.
You are disagreeing with me and instead of going your way and forking this discussion to somewhere else, you keep on "harassing" me (by your definition) by trying to push your opinion onto me.
How rude. I am the victim. (Not really. It's called a discussion.)
It's a discussion that, I think, has run its useful course and beyond; perhaps we could bring it to a close, please?
Herb Sutter on increasing safety in C++