Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
A contest for new logos for the openSUSE project and for four separate distributions of it, Tumbleweed, Leap, Slowroll, and Kalpa, has turned into a bit of an uproar in that community. A vote has been held on the candidates and winners have been announced, but some are questioning why there is a need to change the existing logo (the "Geeko" chameleon) at all. In addition, there are questions about whether the new logo will be trademarked (as previous ones have been)—and how many years that will take.
The logo-design contest was meant to try to foster a single unified "look"
that meshes well with the existing logos for the MicroOS, Leap Micro, and Aeon distributions.
Tumbleweed and Leap have existing logos that share the look, but there have
been some "visibility and recognition issues
" with Tumbleweed's;
Leap was added into the mix in case the community thought it should change.
Unifying the look will "strengthen the visual identity of the openSUSE
brand and make
it discernible and cohesive
". The guideline in the contest
announcement said that logos should be "designed with
simple shapes and lines for uniqueness and interest, typically as empty
outlines, although the possibility of using fill is not excluded
". A
look through the submissions will show multiple examples of what is meant.
The link to the announcement about voting on the designs was posted to the openSUSE project mailing list on November 23 by Douglas DeMaio, who is a member of the openSUSE Board and is managing the contest. He was encouraging people to read about the contest and to vote for their favorites. But there was no option to vote for "no change" on the overall openSUSE project logo (seen at left), even though the existing Tumbleweed and Leap logos were options; Slowroll and Kalpa do not yet have logos.
Since they could not vote for it, several people noted their happiness with
the existing openSUSE logo in the thread. For example,
"victorhck" said:
"I really don't want to change the main Geecko image for openSUSE.
"
Javier Llorente agreed, noting
that there are "some nice logo designs
", but lamenting the lack of a
"'keep the
current the logo' option
".
"Marcel" raised
the possibility of "legal problems
" with the existing openSUSE logo,
saying that it is too similar to the SUSE logo. Stefan Seyfried expressed
surprise about that; if that was the reason behind the switch, he said,
it should have
been mentioned in the announcement. Former board member (and current SUSE
Distributions Architect) Richard Brown said
he thought that there was not any actual legal problem; "The current
logo is a formally
registered trademark
".
Brown also noted that changing the trademarked openSUSE logo would require
a new trademark registration, which comes with a substantial financial and
time cost, unless the
project is "just abandoning the
idea of openSUSE having a defensible
trademark
". There are multiple problems with not having a trademark,
however, including the trademark
guidelines becoming unenforceable for the logo. In addition, SUSE
would have an interest in ensuring that openSUSE (which, obviously, shares
part of its name with its parent) has a valid trademark.
One of the openSUSE branding contributors, Jacob Michalskie (also known as
"LCP"), pointed
out that while some of their designs were part of the contest, there
was some confusion in the messaging about the logos. They were concerned
that the
vote will not be "representative of the
intent of the people that voted
".
DeMaio noted
that the "plan would be to trademark a
new design
" at the end of what "will likely be a long process
".
He quoted from the contest announcement, which says:
The person doing the branding changes and maintenance has a say in any changes. The ultimate brand decision will rest with members of the project doing the implementation, but the results from this logo competition will provide an expressed opinion of the brand identity project wide.
But Brown complained
that there was no option to express the "no change" opinion, though
concerns about that were raised "here, on Reddit, and across other
social media platforms
". In addition, he wondered why there was such a
push to do this contest, which is pressuring the branding folks who may or
may not think there is any need to change the logo. He suggested that
"those pushing this logo-change agenda
" step back and process the
feedback they had already been given.
As might be guessed, DeMaio saw
things differently; he suggested waiting for the results of the vote
once it ended (on December 10). It is not clear to him that there is a
groundswell of opposition to changing the logo; he personally thinks that
not making a change may be viewed as stagnation. Some of that post
seemed to have greatly angered Brown, who replied
in a heated fashion—to the point that a new community member called
out "the accusations,
insinuations, and anger
" in the post.
Brown's complaints seem to boil down to his perception that all of the effort that is going into the contest may be entirely wasted if SUSE is not on board with spending the time and money on registering a new trademark. He seems to think that the majority opinion is that the logo should not change and, in truth, it seems to be hard to find many advocates (other than DeMaio) in various places that the subject has arisen. Brown clearly does not believe that DeMaio should be the one driving the effort—if the effort is needed at all—though angrily airing that in public seems counterproductive at best.
Part of Brown's frustration may stem from the lengthy process that resulted
from changes to the openSUSE logo in 2005 and 2007; the paperwork on those
took two and six years respectively as he described
in a Reddit comment. Meanwhile, the prospect of spending money to change
something for change's sake seems like a bad plan to some. Carlos E. R. said: "Change just for
changing? No.
". Board member Patrick Fitzgerald thought
that "money is better spent on events and infrastructure than trademark
lawyers... but having enough for both would be even better ;)
".
At this point, the voting has closed and a new set of logos has been "chosen", though there was a three-way tie for the Tumbleweed logo and, of course, there was no "keep existing" option for the openSUSE logo. Where things go from here is unclear; the holidays approach, for one thing, and DeMaio seemed to indicate he would let others drive the process going forward. But, before any change to LCP's winning openSUSE logo (seen at left) can be effected, the issues around trademark registration will need a resolution of some sort. Then there may be a lengthy wait for the trademark-registration process to play out—if the community, and SUSE, find that to be a worthwhile thing to pursue.
Posted Dec 14, 2023 11:51 UTC (Thu)
by gray_-_wolf (subscriber, #131074)
[Link] (1 responses)
Also this is interesting. DeMaio mentioned that
> No one submitted the 2005 logo as was mentioned in the article and wiki.
but did not react to the rebuttal:
> Nobody could submit the 2005 logo without breaking the rules that
If that is true, either this logo contest is somewhat mismanaged, because even the person organizing it was lost in the rules, or the original email[1] was intentionally misleading.
And finally my (completely unimportant) opinion: The opensuse logo is great and very recognizable, changing it just for the sake of the change seems... not great.
0: https://lwn.net/ml/opensuse-project/ff6af62b4e676ff7736a3...
Posted Dec 14, 2023 18:18 UTC (Thu)
by ballombe (subscriber, #9523)
[Link]
Posted Dec 14, 2023 14:06 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link] (4 responses)
On the other side, for many people who have never 'identified' with a particular logo, then all of this emotional repercussions always seems to come out of nowhere.
Posted Dec 14, 2023 16:28 UTC (Thu)
by Phantom_Hoover (subscriber, #167627)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Dec 14, 2023 16:57 UTC (Thu)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
The Mayor ("Chief Executive") discovered that they were using some four or more different logos. So the ruling came down that "We are going back to the old Borough Crest from the 1950s".
The press had a field day - "How much money has the council wasted on consultants and jollies and freebies just to go back to the old Crest? Think of the waste - all the old logos and paper and everything being thrown in the bin!". Self-righteous indignation left right and centre.
Until the Press Conference. Where it was revealed that the decision had been made by a committee of one. The Mayor. With not much input from anyone else. And the executive decision had gone out "When ordering any new stationary etc, it must have the old Crest. Until you need more, just keep using what you've already got".
Cheers,
Posted Dec 14, 2023 20:15 UTC (Thu)
by cjwatson (subscriber, #7322)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Dec 25, 2023 16:13 UTC (Mon)
by sammythesnake (guest, #17693)
[Link]
The next five minutes was everyone in the office enumerating the bounteous negative connotations of a word at the heart of the new identity*.
That feedback was only stemmed when the boss clarified (though not in quite such self aware terms) that what he *should* have asked for wasn't "feedback" but "fullsome approval of and congratulations on" the already completed marketing guru consultation he'd spent a significant chunk of the year's budget on...
* I'd tell you what that word was, but it'd be just a little too close to naming and shaming...
Posted Dec 14, 2023 16:40 UTC (Thu)
by PastyAndroid (subscriber, #168019)
[Link] (1 responses)
I may be overlooking something obvious though.
Posted Dec 14, 2023 17:06 UTC (Thu)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
SUSE is the commercial product.
OpenSUSE is the community edition which - certainly as a legal fiction - is I believe completely independent. The reality is it is heavily dependent on SUSE's good-will, and will have no desire to bite the hand that feeds it.
I've been in that position - running a software user group. We were adamant that, as a user group, we were very much on the side of the wider user group (ie users of competing products too). But, as a supplier-sponsored group specifically for that supplier's products, we would work with and not antagonise them. And we had quite a few staff and ex-staff from competitors involved with us. I was part of the group setting the user group up, and I fought (didn't have to fight very hard for it) specifically for that. The only - VERY CLEAR - rule was that if you were involved with working for a competitor, you had to *prominently* declare it.
Cheers,
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
> explicitly prohibited existing trademarks being submitted
1: https://lwn.net/ml/opensuse-project/170202710832.18903.58...
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Wol
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Logo and trademark issues for openSUSE
Wol
