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Using Common Lisp in Emacs

Using Common Lisp in Emacs

Posted Nov 15, 2023 13:01 UTC (Wed) by spacefrogg (subscriber, #119608)
In reply to: Using Common Lisp in Emacs by IanKelling
Parent article: Using Common Lisp in Emacs

The statement that cl-lib makes elisp a "mix of languages" is plain wrong. It is a set of abstractions written in elisp to mimic the API of CommonLisp. It's elisp the same way that the HTTP API is still elisp although it is talking HTTP.

What you are actually saying is: "It should not be allowed to write certain functions in elisp, because they would mimic functions in CommonLisp, which I don't like!" Well, you can do that, I suppose. I do not find this a valid opinion, though. Nobody, not you, not anyone else is telling me how to program and what functions to write to deliver a functionality. And if you want to meaningfully debug my code, you still have to understand how the functions, that I use, operate. So, forcing me to write my own abstractions, won't even help you debugging my code.

Emacs is a complex computer interface. It has to deal with all kinds of languages and also understands others than Elisp like XML or JS to provide valuable service to you. Do you want to forbid that as well just to keep a holy language clean?

People have put effort into writing emacs packages and they chose to use cl-lib, because it solved real problems for them that no other emacs developer or any programmer, including you, could be arsed to help them with.

I always find it funny when some "gray-beard developers" show up telling anyone how much easier it is reading the simple constructs of elisp and not having to read "110 page manual"s, while at the same time, newcomers, apparently, find it easier to just use the, oh so dreadful, cl-lib functions. How is it that those newcomers are so much cleverer learning new code constructs than you old big bosses?

I suspect it is you, who is completely besides the point. And I can, at the same time, completely respect the emacs maintainer's stance that they don't want do maintain code that needs cl-lib. Well, then they have to find somebody to clean up the code that exists and deter any newcomer from using cl-lib. And please, don't speak for "people". Speak for yourself. You have no idea what is "better for people" any more than I do.


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