Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

[Posted August 2, 2023 by corbet]

The Asahi Linux project, which is working to create a Linux distribution for Apple hardware, has announced that its new "flagship" distribution will be based on Fedora Linux.

Working directly with upstream means not only can we integrate more closely with the core distribution, but we can also get issues in other packages fixed quickly and smoothly. This is particularly important for platforms like desktop ARM64, where we still run into random app and package bugs quite often. ARM64 desktop Linux has been a niche platform (until now!), and with much less testing comes a higher propensity for bugs, so it’s very important that we can address these issues quickly. Fedora already has a very solid, fully supported ARM64 port with a large userbase in the server/headless segment, so it is an excellent base to build upon and help improve the state of desktop Linux on ARM64 for everyone.

There is a version for "adventurous users" to play with now, with an official release expected by the end of the month.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 17:35 UTC (Wed) by hawk (subscriber, #3195) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm not sure that "working to create a Linux distribution" is an accurate description of the Asahi Linux project?
My impression is rather that they are working to make Linux run on Apple's ARM-based computers and upstreaming all their work, with little or no interest in having a new Linux distribution in the end.

Fedora sounds like a great fit to actually start getting their work into major distros.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 10:45 UTC (Thu) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

It is both, according to their faq: they are working to have linux supported, AND working to create a distribution.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 17:46 UTC (Wed) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link] (9 responses)

I'm not sure that the Debian project (or Armbian/Raspbian / Raspberry Pi OS) would suggest arm64 as a niche platform in that it's been there for several years. Getting a unified arm64 platform still remains some way off though.

I'd much rather that everything they produce were available for any and all distributions, however.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 18:08 UTC (Wed) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link]

The quote is about 'ARM64 desktop linux' which of course relies on an imprecise word definition of 'desktop'. A raspberry pi may be seen as a desktop to some people, and to others not at all.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 18:14 UTC (Wed) by josh (subscriber, #17465) [Link] (3 responses)

Other than the macOS platforms that Asahi Linux is working to enable, arm64 *desktop* Linux is absolutely a niche compared to x86 *desktop* Linux, in terms of the number and breadth of devices people work with.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 7:18 UTC (Thu) by taladar (subscriber, #68407) [Link]

Technically x86/i386 desktop Linux is also a niche but you probably meant x86_64/amd64.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 11:58 UTC (Thu) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link] (1 responses)

Certainly Linux on Apple hardware is more of a niche than Linux on ARM64 in general, and so far as I'm concerned anything that ships a desktop environment is a desktop platform, so saying "ARM64 desktop Linux has been a niche platform (until now!)" really seems very disrespectful - like everyone else just doesn't matter, and only *their* niche is the one that counts.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 12:47 UTC (Thu) by ballombe (subscriber, #9523) [Link]

The word "niche" is demeaning and should not be used, except maybe for doghouse. It is a way to split communities by claiming to be the bigger chunk, instead of promoting collaboration.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 23:15 UTC (Wed) by dsmith (subscriber, #162071) [Link] (3 responses)

I imagine the most interesting Asahi work product will be kernel patches, which I’m confident will make their way upstream (and thus end up in other distros).

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 7:50 UTC (Thu) by mps (guest, #32594) [Link]

Already a lot of patches for drivers are added to mainline kernel and some people use M1 machines with mainline kernel.
Final goal is to add all to mainline

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 11:54 UTC (Thu) by dottedmag (subscriber, #18590) [Link]

Turns out there were lot of bugs in userspace that were lurking everywhere (even in Emacs, heh) and finally have been surfaced and fixed due to Asahi. The biggest userspace-visible hurdles were: 16K page size, separate GPU/display controller, looser ARM memory guarantees compared to X86.

Plus a usual share of "nobody have actually tried to use XYZ on ARM64 though it was packaged in Debian for ages" issues, especially for software heavy on resource consumption.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 9:51 UTC (Fri) by Sesse (subscriber, #53779) [Link]

Also the immense amount of work done in Mesa.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 2, 2023 22:17 UTC (Wed) by mps (guest, #32594) [Link] (9 responses)

There is a list of alternate distros at https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/SW%3AAlternative-...
I'm using Alpine linux on M1 from November 2021

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 15:40 UTC (Thu) by jzb (editor, #7867) [Link] (8 responses)

How is the experience so far?

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 16:49 UTC (Thu) by mps (guest, #32594) [Link] (7 responses)

For me very fine. I start to use it nearly two years ago (November 2021) as daily driver workstation for user tasks and for development and didn't went back to anything else. (Actually I bought M1 with intention to install linux from the day one).
Before that I used mostly arm64 chromebooks 'converted' to boot linux natively (removed chromes) and I switched to M1 by simply copying my Alpine aarch64 root and home FS from chromebook to M1 macbook and added asahi kernel. All worked faster except chromium (but I don't use it much, just for some tests) but also it is fixed.
Even with simpledrm driver it was very fast playing videos, browsing net with firefox. Compiling is about 10 times faster than on arm64 chromebooks.
And when GPU driver is added interactive response is very good.
Yes, still some things doesn't works but I'm very satisfied (though I don't like apple machines much, this is first one I use daily).
Somewhere around beginning of 2022 year I wrote small guide how to install Alpine linux on M1,
it is here: https://arvanta.net/alpine/install-alpine-m1/

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 3, 2023 17:34 UTC (Thu) by jzb (editor, #7867) [Link] (6 responses)

Thanks so much for the detailed response! As used Apple Silicon machines start popping up I might pick one up for Linux.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 5:08 UTC (Fri) by theobald (subscriber, #105387) [Link] (5 responses)

I worked daily on an M1 with OSX for more than a year and where not very happy. Not with the os nor with the the hardware.
What are the reasons to run a linux desktop on M1 instead of any of the other laptop vendors?

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 7:18 UTC (Fri) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (1 responses)

Because the performance to battery life ratio is the best on the market for anything with reasonable performance?

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 13:25 UTC (Fri) by mps (guest, #32594) [Link]

Main reason I decided to buy M1 macbook is very good display, which is most important 'feature' for me because I usually 'look' at it around 12 hours daily( sometimes even 14-16 hours) to save eyes. After more than 30 years work on computers I still don't need glasses and one of reasons could be that I always carefully buy monitors and/or laptops with good quality displays.
Besides that I knew for long that apple produce good hardware but I never wanted to buy anything from them because their products too much closed, but changed mind two years ago and bought M1. And their OS is not something I would use and never used it.
Probably will not buy anything from them in future, living in hope that we will have options to buy good RISCV laptop/notebook with good display

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 12:48 UTC (Fri) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link] (2 responses)

There are reports (which I'm sure are wildly exaggerated) that you can use a modern Apple laptop for computationally-intensive tasks while it is on top of your actual lap.

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 4, 2023 16:23 UTC (Fri) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link] (1 responses)

I think that's an accurate summary of the same 'big data' programs (conda, JupyterLab, Pandas, Seaborn, MatPlotLib, Python) running on my XPS13 (with Fedora) and my son's Macbook Air M1 (with MacOS, all programs compiled for Apple Silicon) about a year ago. It was a weird physical experience as the XPS13 fan noise was an indication that some work was going on, whereas the Air just sat there silently for ten minutes (some minutes less than the XPS13).

Both laptops shipped with power supplies which were too small to run the system at full rate and simultaneously charge the battery. So if you do have 'big data' tasks you occasionally want to run overnight on the same thin laptop you are taking to university tomorrow, then it is time for a heftier power brick (for the Air M1, a 96W supply is enough to service the peak requirements of the laptop).

Asahi Linux to become a Fedora remix

Posted Aug 5, 2023 7:33 UTC (Sat) by cmm (guest, #81305) [Link]

I was rather referring to the rumor that an M1/M2 won't fry your balls for the sin of actually making some use of the CPU cores while keeping laptop on top of lap. If true, that would be a big difference in user experience, compared to the Thinkpads and Latitudes out there.