McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 15:47 UTC (Mon) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118)
In reply to: McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source by geert
Parent article: McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Maybe this is the France being special, or maybe some misunderstanding? Here in Poland we have savings accounts and settlement accounts (or more common hybrid savings-settlement accounts). Saving accounts typically have higher interest rate, but various limitations – like the number of free wire transfers per month or transfer only to predefined destinations.

Settlement accounts are more flexible. It is typical to give the account number to people to receive money (like when splitting the receipt). It is totally safe. There is a possibility of setting up direct debit for the account, but it requires account owner agreement.
I have DD setup with my mobile phone company, it works smoothly. I'm not aware if there is a possibility to limit direct debit amount. But I'm sure if the telecom ordered a transfer bigger than usual 10 EUR (that's monthly for 2 phones), I would have complaint processed quickly either by my bank or by the telecom itself.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 16:29 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (6 responses)

If someone sets up a DD you did not authorise, you should be able to get it cancelled easily. Getting it refunded can still eat some of your time, phoning and emailing the bank and/or the business concerned.

A company could maliciously setup a DD or - more the case - someone who has your details may misrepresent themselves to a company and have a DD setup to your bank account (possibly obtaining some service or goods from said company, as part of a fraud). You should get your money back, but it can still cost a bit of a time.

Guess how I know.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 16:31 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Oh, and in the UK Jeremy Clarkson famously published his bank account details, as part of his claims in his column that some other data privacy breaches of bank account details were not important. Someone then disabused him of this by getting a DD setup out of his account.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7174760.stm

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 16:39 UTC (Mon) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

In my case, every time I cancelled the DD the company doing so would simply set it up again. The bank could not tell me exactly which company. I had to make an educated guess, based on the name. Some kind of payday loan company. However, ringing up the company a) Cost money (another country) b) They either had no record of me as a customer, under my name - or at least, that's all they would tell me given I couldn't give them any customer account / reference number.

In the end my bank had to completely remove the ability to setup DDs on that account to stop this DD reappearing again and again - they didn't have a function to refuse /specific/ DDs.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 17:16 UTC (Mon) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link] (3 responses)

How someone could setup DD without my authorisation? They would have to forge my signature.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 10, 2023 20:42 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

You clearly haven't set up a DD in the UK (and possibly Europe). It's incredibly easy to set up a fraudulent DD. It doesn't happen often, because (a) it's normally easily reversed, and (b) the banks are legally on the hook.

It's just a right pain if you're the victim, which is why I tend to treat my current account details as seriously private.

Cheers,
Wol

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 11, 2023 8:45 UTC (Tue) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

No signature is required for DDs in a number of countries, AFAIK. If a company wants to set up a DD, they just need your bank details to do so. And someone can misrepresent themselves to a company and give your bank details. I guess the company has to swallow the cost when it's discovered, but it will still cost you one or more mornings of phone calls to get it sorted out. See my sibling comment.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 11, 2023 11:20 UTC (Tue) by kleptog (subscriber, #1183) [Link]

The bank does not physically check the signatures. The organisation setting up the direct debit asserts to the bank that they have received appropriate permission (a signature isn't the only way). In exchange, the end-user gets prior notification of the direct debit and can cancel it anytime and even undo any direct debits for the last 13 months. And the bank will charge the organisation setting up the DD a hefty charge-back fee. Do it too often and they'll kick you off altogether.

For this reason my apartment management refuses to do DD for the monthly service costs, because of shenanigans with people selling their apartment and then reversing all the fees for the previous year. Sure, you can prove that you had the right to do DD, even a signature, but you'll have to send it to debt collection or even the courts to get your money.

So yes, someone could publish their IBAN here and I could (attempt to) setup a direct debit for it, but it would be fraud. Really big organisations like energy and insurance companies use DD because people undoing direct debits without cause is just another one of the many things that can go wrong and it's just a cost of doing business.