McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 9:48 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727)
In reply to: McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source by paulj
Parent article: McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

You ask me for my Euro bank details, and send me a SEPA payment - I have an account with Wise that has banking details in multiple regions, including the Eurozone, USA, Canada, Australia, Singapore and other places, and I can get accounts with other providers who will give me account details in a foreign banking system.

And the other way I could take a micropayment is via the credit card system - I can get a card handling setup that has fees of 2%, minimum withdrawal £50, if I want to take micropayments. Compare that to the best I can do with Monero - 2.5% fees, minimum withdrawal also £50. If credit cards are a non-starter, Monero is also a non-starter, because the fees are higher.

This is the fundamental problem with Monero as a solution - you take my total 2% fee for credit cards, and you split it into a 2.5% fee for buying into the system, a transaction fee, and a 2.5% fee for buying out of the system. If you did the same split for credit cards, it's 0% to buy into the system, no transaction fee, and a 2% fee for buying out of the credit card system.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 9:56 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Ok, reply here with your bank details (name and IBAN), and I'll send you 5c.

I will quite happily give a Monero address here.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 9:58 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (5 responses)

Also, Wise is kind of cheating a little. It's 1 company, not a clearing system. And there's no guarantee a) Wise will have you as a customer, b) Wise will keep you as a customer (e.g., if the balance of currency flows from your account doesn't fit in with their business, they may kick you).

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 10:19 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (4 responses)

It's one of many alternatives - I use Wise, but I could have the same from Starling Bank, Revolut, or HSBC (to my knowledge - I chose Wise simply because of the four I looked at, they were the first to get back to me with confirmation that they could give me the specific letters I needed to get through the processes a US sender of currency wanted me to follow to get money from them).

The clearing system will be SEPA, for Euro payments to any of those three.

And I have related problems with Monero - there's no guarantee that any of the exchanges will let me convert my Monero into useful currency, nor is there a guarantee that if I use an exchange to turn Monero into real money that I won't then be held personally liable for someone else's financial crimes. At least with traditional banking, I'm guaranteed (by regulation) that the banks are the people liable, not me.

Note, too, that even if I go for the expensive option, the fees are still lower than Monero (0% to buy in as compared to Monero's 2.5%, zero transfer fee as compared to Monero's fraction of a cent, and 2% buy out fee, as compared to Monero's 2.5%). It's just that Monero splits the fees up so that you're hyper-focused on the thing that's free to me in the credit card system, and pointing out that that component of the fees is smaller than the total fees in the card system.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 11:02 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

Ok, if Wise + SEPA is so much better and so much more suitable for public solicitation of micro-payments/tips, please give me your details so I can send 5c.

I am quite happy to give you my details for my preferred system: 87774rpgLdmjCFLqyV3BYN6VwBzdvaVbccVUF2K3NHGEFyoQKxCTqcxeDcPHpQPixqitthXhYK5uGbYuFExff24ACiaAUkH

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 11:06 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link]

I've attempted to send you money. Tell me how much I sent when you get it.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 11:04 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link] (1 responses)

Also, Wise is not free. Wise cost you money to buy-in too.

McGrath: Red Hat’s commitment to open source

Posted Jul 7, 2023 11:07 UTC (Fri) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Least, Wise definitely charge money for certain accounts, e.g. business. And also certain kinds of transfers on top of that.