A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
Posted Jun 3, 2023 15:55 UTC (Sat) by pizza (subscriber, #46)In reply to: A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco by mb
Parent article: A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
Sure, Google "just changed their mind" when they dropped Google News or any of their innumerable products. Fast forward to today, where hardly anyone trusts Google to keep any new service running for more than a year or two (or even services that have been running for a decade!) which severely hurts uptake and adoption of anything they try to launch (most recently Stadia, which became a self-fulfilling prophecy!)
So no, there are very real _consequences_ for the folks in charge of Rust "changing their mind", especially in light of the sub-par reputation they're continuing to show is well-earned.
Posted Jun 3, 2023 16:38 UTC (Sat)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (12 responses)
https://www.google.de/search?q=google+yearly+revenue
Does not look like a company that has trouble with product adoption to me.
> So no, there are very real _consequences_ for the folks in charge of Rust "changing their mind",
Yes. There are consequences for everything. And we simply have to live with the consequences. People usually learn how to do that when growing up.
But this is a tempest in a tea cup.
Yes, this is annoying. Yes, they could have done better.
Posted Jun 4, 2023 1:43 UTC (Sun)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link] (10 responses)
Google has one profitable product: Advertising. Everything else is funnels eyeballs (and/or user data) into that.
Meanwhile, despite being wildly profitable, Google has killed (as of this counting) 285 products, most of which had sizeable userbases.
> Get over it.
The folks directly affected by this "got over it" by ending their involvement with the Rust project altogether.
Posted Jun 4, 2023 7:08 UTC (Sun)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (9 responses)
Companies start and terminate products all the time. That's just a normal thing to do. It's not specific to Google.
> The folks directly affected by this "got over it" by
Exactly.
Posted Jun 4, 2023 12:05 UTC (Sun)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link] (1 responses)
"Sometimes the only way to win, is to refuse to play". When dealing with hormone-laden pre-teens like Rust, I think that's a pretty adult response ...
Cheers,
Posted Jun 4, 2023 13:30 UTC (Sun)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link]
Wow. You are saying that they asked him for a keynote talk with the indent to downgrade it just to bully him?
>"Sometimes the only way to win, is to refuse to play".
If writing a big blog post is defined as not playing.
>When dealing with hormone-laden pre-teens like Rust
Do you think this is polite?
Posted Jun 5, 2023 5:07 UTC (Mon)
by marcH (subscriber, #57642)
[Link]
No it's not specific to Google. But there is something specific to Google: doing things on a massive scale!
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/04/googles-constant-...
Posted Jun 6, 2023 17:36 UTC (Tue)
by jschrod (subscriber, #1646)
[Link] (5 responses)
Well, I'm not part of the Rust community and have not used that language and ecosystem once. I just observe the toxic atmosphere and the fanatiscm of that community, and that makes me want to don't touch it with a ten-feet pole.
Posted Jun 6, 2023 18:42 UTC (Tue)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link] (3 responses)
They were inviting him with the intent to downgrade the talk just to bully him?
Changing mind is maybe rude and is certainly not what they should have done, bit it's far from intentional bullying. (There is no such thing as unintentional bullying).
Bullying is a criminal offense.
>and have not used that language and ecosystem once
I doubt it. Used Firefox or Android or Windows or ...?
>I just observe the toxic atmosphere and the fanatiscm of that community
You are overreacting a lot. Really.
Posted Jun 6, 2023 23:05 UTC (Tue)
by jschrod (subscriber, #1646)
[Link] (2 responses)
> They were inviting him with the intent to downgrade the talk just to bully him?
Of course, nobody did this as a plan. But, obviously from the reports, nobody put a minute of thought into thinking what this degration means to an accomplished expert. There was a link to a post from somebody named "JT" who resigned, who put it into words: He asked around if anybody he knows has ever experienced something like this -- and the answer was "no".
Schoolyard bullies don't plan their actions, they see something they dislike, see an opportunity, and take it. That's why they are called "bullies", they don't act strategically, but on an emotional whim.
> > and have not used that language and ecosystem once
> I doubt it. Used Firefox or Android or Windows or ...?
This comment makes me question your willingness for discussion. IMNSHO it was obvious that I wrote this as a software developer. I wanted to make clear that I'm not involved in software development with Rust. I.e., that I'm impartial to the internal struggle in that project. I'm solely active in the TeX community -- and I'm proud that we don't have as much quarrels as is reported here.
That makes me ask -- just for interest: What is your involvement?
Posted Jun 7, 2023 6:52 UTC (Wed)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
> > I doubt it. Used Firefox or Android or Windows or ...?
*I* haven't used it. Software I use (I use all three you mention) obviously do.
> That makes me ask -- just for interest: What is your involvement?
I have my own projects to be involved in (md-raid, ScarletDME). That said, I read the back-story, which is a bit horrific. That, and posters here saying "Oh it's nothing" and I found it hard to keep out. "Don't feed the trolls" and all that. I think there's a couple of posters here who know how to press my buttons ...
Cheers,
Posted Jun 7, 2023 19:38 UTC (Wed)
by mb (subscriber, #50428)
[Link]
I'm not posting anonymously here.
I just don't think it matters.
> This comment makes me question your willingness for discussion.
I have a different opinion than you have and all that is left is a personal attack from your side.
Posted Jun 6, 2023 22:47 UTC (Tue)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
It's the others that seem rather disfunctional. At the end of the day, they need to grow up and get some sort of formal structure in place (and not do what another organisation I was involved with did - they got what I charitably described as "organisational Alzheimers" :-)
Cheers,
Posted Jun 4, 2023 1:48 UTC (Sun)
by pizza (subscriber, #46)
[Link]
Maya Angelou said something that is quite relevant:
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
...This wasn't the first time.
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
> which severely hurts uptake and adoption of anything they try to launch
> especially in light of the sub-par reputation they're continuing to show is well-earned.
This is about re-categorizing a talk from Keynote to Regular Talk.
But this is not the end of the world.
Get over it.
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
> most of which had sizeable userbases.
The purpose of a company is not to provide a product forever, but to make revenue.
> ending their involvement with the Rust project altogether.
Ending their involvement just because a talk has been changed from Keynote to Regular is just the behavior I would expect from children.
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
Wol
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
>is exactly the behaviour I would expect from bullies.
Seriously?
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
What facts you you base this bold claim on?
Downgrading a talk is rude.
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
Are you active in the Rust Project?
Were you active in that conference?
Do you have connections to the people that we talk about -- whom I don't know?
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
> Are you active in the Rust Project?
> Were you active in that conference?
> Do you have connections to the people that we talk about -- whom I don't know?
Wol
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
> Are you active in the Rust Project?
> Were you active in that conference?
> Do you have connections to the people that we talk about -- whom I don't know?
It's easy to find out who I am and what I am involved in.
So if you really mean it, go for it.
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco
Wol
A post on the RustConf keynote fiasco