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The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted Apr 24, 2023 3:55 UTC (Mon) by Vipketsh (guest, #134480)
In reply to: The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity by tialaramex
Parent article: The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

> are overwhelmingly cargo culting that UX

I'm not so sure. My impression is more that they are doing things in a way that abides by the letter of the law but still applies as much psychology as possible to increase the chances of you just hitting the "Agree to all" button, which is what the operator would generally like, instead of unchecking any of the unnecessary stuff. Just a few observations:

1, When you first visit, they pop up some box where you must agree to *something* before being able to use the site. There is seldom a button saying "I don't allow anything" (I have mostly seen such an option only on government run sites, but there are some others).
2, The button saying "I agree to everything" is always the single most prominent. So much so that the "configure/choose" option often masquerades as an inconspicuous tiny hyperlink.
3, When/if you get to the configure window there are usually 10-30 individual options to uncheck. Again, seldom is a "nothing" option available. This takes a while and is a pain in the ass. In an extreme case I have witnessed 30+ options, each of which took you to some site where you had to click to disable and then again to confirm it. Quite un-user friendly.
4, In the selection window the "Confirm Choices" button is *never* where you would usually expect it. Instead that location is prominently occupied by a "Agree to all" button.
5, If you decide to take the pain of deselecting something a few weeks later the website makes you go through the same dance. Strange that when clicking the "Agree to everything" button you never get reminded again.

This is why any legislation that allows "voluntary consent" simply changes the game, as it were, such that the bigger party tries as hard as they can to make you "voluntarily consent". Usually it is successful.


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The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted Apr 24, 2023 5:45 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (2 responses)

> If you decide to take the pain of deselecting something a few weeks later the website makes you go through the same dance. Strange that when clicking the "Agree to everything" button you never get reminded again.

You didn't agree to the cookie that stores your preferences to not store data. It's probably toggle number 23 (today; it probably moves around).

The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted Apr 25, 2023 16:42 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link]

That cookie can (and should) be labeled as a "necessary" cookie and excluded from the selection entirely (provided, of course, that it is *only* used for storing opt-outs and not for any other kind of tracking).

The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted May 2, 2023 18:52 UTC (Tue) by immibis (subscriber, #105511) [Link]

This cookie does not require user consent because, roughly speaking, it serves the user rather than serving shareholder profits.

The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted Apr 24, 2023 15:12 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> > are overwhelmingly cargo culting that UX

> I'm not so sure. My impression is more that they are doing things in a way that abides by the letter of the law but still applies as much psychology as possible to increase the chances of you just hitting the "Agree to all" button, which is what the operator would generally like, instead of unchecking any of the unnecessary stuff. Just a few observations:

Which is a pretty blatant breach of "informed consent". If the website is deceptive, which shouldn't be too hard to prove, then legal consent was not obtained. I've never come across websites like that. (Not nowadays. A lot of the shareware sites were like that, demanding to install PUPs, I still see the odd site which looks - shall we say - "wrong".)

The other thing is, UK legislation in particular often mandates what information is "most prominent". You're allowed to make other stuff equally prominent, but hiding the "minimal consent" button will probably fall foul of that sort of legislation ...

Cheers,
Wol

The Python Software Foundation on European cybersecurity

Posted Apr 27, 2023 8:46 UTC (Thu) by anton (subscriber, #25547) [Link]

It's against the law to make it harder to only get the necessary cookies than to agree to everything. So many sites now have a button "Only necessary cookies". Even for those that don't, the usual experience is that I click on "configure" and get a page where all (typically 2-4) optional cookies are disabled*, and I just need to click on "confirm".

* At least I think so. Even after several years with "material design", which replaced checkboxes (a staple in GUI design since its introduction in the 1980s) with something that takes more space and is much less intuitive, I am not sure whether a switch is on or off in material design.


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