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SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

The Software Freedom Conservancy calls out John Deere for failure to comply with the GPL and preventing farmers from repairing their own equipment.

This is a serious issue that goes far beyond one person wanting to fix their printer software, or install an alternative firmware on a luxury device. It has far-reaching implications for all farmers' livelihoods, for food security throughout the world, and for how we as a society choose to reward those who make our lives better, or stand in the way of empowering everyone to improve the world.


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SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 16, 2023 17:01 UTC (Thu) by Funcan (guest, #44209) [Link] (11 responses)

Why not going the usual IP enforcement rope and ask for an injunction against the import or sale of all infringing items? That should get some attention pretty quick. The fact that every enforcement body insists on a softly-softly approach means there's zero downside to ignoring the GPL

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 16, 2023 17:18 UTC (Thu) by paulj (subscriber, #341) [Link]

Yep. Killing Free Software with kindness. Written about that elsewhere: https://paul.jakma.org/2009/12/21/killing-free-software-w...

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 16, 2023 22:16 UTC (Thu) by faramir (subscriber, #2327) [Link] (9 responses)

For some very noteworthy GPLed projects, major developers have publicly expressed multiple times that legal action should be the last thing done. To me at least, it's not clear if any level GPL violation would warrant legal action for some of them. Large projects tend to have many developers and not all of them are as reluctant to take legal action, so there are developers who could act as copyright owners to bring legal action for copyright violation; but at least in the case of the SFC, it seems like they want to follow the 'consensus' of the developer community which often means no action all. Thus the resorting to public shaming or no action at all.

The Vizio case mentioned by another poster, is an attempt at legal action without copyright owner involvement based on the GPL being a contract that individuals can sue for enforcement without developer involvement in the case (i.e. end users have enforceable rights as well as developers). Or at least that is my understanding of the Vizio case.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 17, 2023 5:23 UTC (Fri) by iabervon (subscriber, #722) [Link] (8 responses)

I think a lot of developers of GPLed projects, they don't feel personally harmed when companies use their code without obeying the license, if they also don't ask for support, especially if the companies almost certainly don't make any useful modifications. They're not going to sue a company over not following the license if they don't actually want anything from the company and nobody would get anything particularly useful or interesting out of the company complying.

On the other hand, they may be more likely to take offense if they see end users of their code actively harmed by a company not following the license. So I can see this callout as the SFC trying to build consensus around this being an important cause that holders of copyrights on GPLed projects can support, where there's a possible legal remedy they may care about.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 17, 2023 6:17 UTC (Fri) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (3 responses)

> I think a lot of developers of GPLed projects, they don't feel personally harmed when companies use their code without obeying the license

I've never used a permissive license when I've had my say. I would totally feel personally harmed should I find out a company is violating the license.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 18, 2023 19:49 UTC (Sat) by mmaug (subscriber, #61003) [Link] (2 responses)

(Currently at LibrePlanet 2023)

I CHOOSE a copyleft license so that my efforts cannot be hidden nor stolen by those interested in making money rather than enhancing the collective knowledge.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 23, 2023 11:22 UTC (Thu) by kpfleming (subscriber, #23250) [Link] (1 responses)

Unfortunately 'cannot' in that sentence is a goal, not reality. The only thing stopping those actors from doing the things you wish to disallow is your ability to pursue actions against them to make them stop. There is no independent enforcement body who can do it on your behalf (and with its own funding).

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 23, 2023 14:18 UTC (Thu) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link]

Yes yes, in the same sense as "you can't just go up to someone and stab him".

Of course you can, but hopefully the disincentives are sufficient.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 19, 2023 9:56 UTC (Sun) by ksandstr (guest, #60862) [Link] (3 responses)

>I think a lot of developers of GPLed projects, they don't feel personally harmed when companies use their code without obeying the license,

There's an ugly name for those who argue about the intent of others contrary to said others' concrete actions. I read this comment as "go ahead and walk right over Them Nerds, they're just playing coy", and if a different meaning was intended then it wasn't adequately communicated.

The choice between the GNU General Public License's second and third versions, use of the "or later" clause, and any other mode of licensing, has been thoroughly discussed online and elsewhere over the past generation of man, is well understood, and represents the copyright owner's definite and unambiguous will. Disregard for this intent can only have risen out of the same wastebucket as Internet-persistent fantasies about the GPL being "untested in court" and therefore subject to such invalidation that wouldn't leave the exploiter facing a sentence for criminal copyright infringement.

It's a crying shame that today the GPL isn't being enforced with a singular firm request first and the nuclear option an immediate second. A corporation -- such as John Deere in the context of the SFC's case here -- recognizes nothing as it does a direct effect on its bottom line; and as is apparent from their non-compliance thusfar, anything but the maximum iron fist will yield no result.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 21, 2023 15:56 UTC (Tue) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (2 responses)

I think we can all agree that:

1. Violating the copyright license is wrong, and also illegal.
2. Not all developers care about (1) enough to actually file a lawsuit (if they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation).

(1) is a normative statement, (2) is a factual statement. Both can be true at the same time.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 21, 2023 16:48 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link] (1 responses)

> 2. Not all developers care about (1) enough to actually file a lawsuit (if they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation).

There's also 2a, "Of those that care about (1), very few have the resources (or sufficient standing, see the VMware debacle) to file a lawsuit and see it through.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 22, 2023 13:09 UTC (Wed) by SKodai (guest, #153476) [Link]

Louis Rossmann (of Rossmann Repair Group, right-to-repair advocacy, and various YT and Odysee videos) has pretty much declared he's going to fight John Deere on this. https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/holding-corporate-cri...

If FSF and SFC aren't interested in starting this fight, they should at least team up with Louis Rossmann's effort.

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 16, 2023 20:19 UTC (Thu) by atai (subscriber, #10977) [Link] (1 responses)

anyone knows what is the status of the Vizio case?

SFC: John Deere's ongoing GPL violations: What's next

Posted Mar 17, 2023 0:52 UTC (Fri) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

From the XMPP room: the case is still in discovery and the trial date is set for September.

The most recent win was the remand of the case back to state court:

https://sfconservancy.org/news/2022/may/16/vizio-remand-win/


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