NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
Posted Feb 16, 2023 1:40 UTC (Thu) by david.a.wheeler (subscriber, #72896)In reply to: NASA and open-source software by randomguy3
Parent article: NASA and open-source software
You're right, if there's no copyright AND there's no other constraint (e.g., patents & trademarks), you can insert the no-copyright work into a work with a copyright. So it's not a "problem" in the typical sense, because you CAN legally do it.
The usual objection involves government folks being worried that they'll be re-paying for software the government already paid to develop. OSS licenses - even permissive ones - typically *do* impose some requirements, typically an attribution requirement. If the software has to reveal that it's written from XYZ, a user can find XYZ. You can't impose *any* requirements on a work without copyright, including an attribution requirement. In my opinion, the real solution is that government people should do market research before they buy anything, as already required by regulation. Market research in most cases would quickly find them alternatives. But government employees are typically overworked, and market research is often skimped as a result. That still doesn't really excuse it though; don't pay a lot of money before looking at your alternatives.
The blog post "How to apply an Open Source License to a US Government Work" by Dan Risacher https://risacher.org/jfdi/2014/07/how-to-apply-an-open-so... does an awesome job discussing this. Basically:
1. Just release as public domain.
2. Create a joint work that's partly public domain.
3. Rely on the fact that "no copyright" only applies within the US; copyright still applies outside the US.
There are some weirdnesses in this case. Some organizations (e.g., Apache Software Foundation) require organizations to sign statements involving copyright, and government lawyers get all confused. Historically organizations would make exceptions for the US government, but many foundations aren't familiar with the peculiarities of the US government. There's still a copyright outside the US, so I think they can simply sign with a clean conscience, but I'm not a government lawyer so they don't need to listen to me.
The OSI's position is that "public domain is not a license". That is true in a sense, but misleading. There's a license, it's just that it's granted by the laws of the relevant nation instead of being a separate document. A bigger concern by the OSI - and one that *is* reasonable - is that simply not having a copyright doesn't mean that it's legal to use as OSS, because it could still be covered by patents and/or trademarks. Trademarks are easily dealt with, but patents aren't. If software is covered by patents, then the lack of copyright is irrelevant, and in this case the patent permissions granted by typical OSS licenses don't work (like the implicit ones in MIT and GPL 2.0, or the explicit ones in Apache-2.0 and GPL-3.0).
My personal opinion is that this is mostly a NASA "problem", in the sense that NASA's lawyers think it's a problem even though most of the rest of the US government doesn't think it's a problem to release code as public domain. Many programs have been released without copyright (e.g., expect), and the sky did not fall.
Posted Feb 16, 2023 8:50 UTC (Thu)
by amacater (subscriber, #790)
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The US is an outlier here, especially if PD applies within the US but the US government could, if it chose, apply copyright to anyone outside the US for software written by its public servants.
Apache and so on want licensing under the Apache licence as much for clarity as for anything else. Due diligence on software license terms will mean that mixing PD with anything else causes a licensing headache. NASA's getting permission to use other licenses is a big win for all here. Much the same argument applies to Crown copyright for UK Government works - that also causes problems for others trying to deal with it - my understanding is that Crown copyright can be waived at the discretion of the originating entity with appropriate sign off and is, essentially, just attribution.
Posted Feb 16, 2023 13:33 UTC (Thu)
by randomguy3 (subscriber, #71063)
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Posted Feb 16, 2023 13:45 UTC (Thu)
by kleptog (subscriber, #1183)
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For example, I don't really think attribution needs to be a deal-breaker here.
Posted Feb 17, 2023 1:04 UTC (Fri)
by david.a.wheeler (subscriber, #72896)
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Posted Feb 16, 2023 14:54 UTC (Thu)
by Karellen (subscriber, #67644)
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But isn't that the case for any OSS? Can't it be the case for OSS you've written yourself, even unknowingly? If you're not aware that a term is actually a trademark, or because some patent you had no way of knowing exists actually does?
Posted Feb 17, 2023 1:11 UTC (Fri)
by david.a.wheeler (subscriber, #72896)
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You're right that this doesn't prevent patent trolls, but no licenses could. That would require a change in law. Patent trolls are generally non-practicing entities.
Posted Feb 17, 2023 8:56 UTC (Fri)
by Karellen (subscriber, #67644)
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Only if you own the patent. I was trying to describe the case where you might unknowingly reimplement someone else's patent. Which is entirely possible, even in the absence of patent trolls. (Unless you believe that non-troll patents are in fact so innovative and groundbreaking that the chances of someone else stumbling on the same solution to a similar problem are truly negligible)
Posted Feb 19, 2023 18:42 UTC (Sun)
by ssmith32 (subscriber, #72404)
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Posted Feb 16, 2023 23:58 UTC (Thu)
by rfontana (subscriber, #52677)
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Posted Feb 17, 2023 0:55 UTC (Fri)
by Paf (subscriber, #91811)
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Posted Feb 17, 2023 1:01 UTC (Fri)
by david.a.wheeler (subscriber, #72896)
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NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
simply not having a copyright doesn't mean that it's legal to use as OSS, because it could still be covered by patents and/or trademarks.
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
if you contribute to the project, you grant patent uses.
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain
NASA and open-source software - public domain