The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 3:43 UTC (Mon) by timrichardson (subscriber, #72836)
In reply to: The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions by pabs
Parent article: The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

thanks for the link. The debian maintainer was convinced that the previous situation was compliant, not that the previous situation was ok simply because it was the status quo. The argument considered the legality of the driver in debian called intel-media-va-driver, and considers that the AMD situation is the same. That is, the use of the patented logic is not enabled merely by mesa alone, or by the intel driver alone. Red Hat's developer, presumably based on advice from Red Hat legal, came to a very different conclusion from the same starting point, at least for Mesa. He didn't seem very convinced or convincing: it's a jig saw puzzle with one piece missing, but actually it is something else.

It gets confusing pretty fast to me: it seems that Fedora regards the fully enabled intel driver as non-free because of the patents, but includes it in repositories anyway ( tagged non-free to enable to enable user choice), but mesa + H264 which has a risk of infringing those same patents in combination with that non-free driver, will not be shipped. If one is ok, why not the other, what is the difference? The debian maintainer seems to conclude that (1) there is no difference and (2) each of the components on its own is not infringing. To me, this seems more consistent than the Fedora/RedHat position.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 4:56 UTC (Mon) by zdzichu (guest, #17118) [Link] (2 responses)

The Fedora comment is untrue. Package libva-intel-driver lives in RPMFusion repository, which is 3rd party repo, not a part of Fedora. There isn't anything like "non-free" in Fedora.
Also, RPMFusion is in the process of packaging mesa-freeworld, with limitation described in this article reverted.

I've found interesting tidbit in the bug you linked: “If Debian doesn't ship the firmware, there is no issue.”
Given recent decision to ship firmwares in Debian, doesn't it create a legal problem?

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 7:47 UTC (Mon) by Conan_Kudo (subscriber, #103240) [Link]

And actually, Intel makes it possible to build the VAAPI driver without support for encumbered codecs. That version is being worked on to bring into Fedora proper.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 10:43 UTC (Mon) by timrichardson (subscriber, #72836) [Link]

Thank you for the Fedora correction. In that case, Fedora is consistent.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 7:41 UTC (Mon) by Conan_Kudo (subscriber, #103240) [Link] (4 responses)

Debian recently changed to ship firmware on the media and install by default, so that changes the dynamics quite a bit. Putting that aside, Debian provides plenty of software-only codecs that are patent encumbered. According to the linked policy, Debian shouldn't be doing that. But since it does, it's clear nobody follows that policy.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 9:49 UTC (Mon) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link] (3 responses)

The Debian firmware GR is about non-free firmware (for things like WiFi) and not "all of what's in Debian non-free" - that's the *whole* point. The installer will install the firmware - see the contents of firmware-linux-nonfree for things that install in /lib/firmware - but will also offer the end user the chance to back out and install only a free system.

This is shipping binaries provided by the vendors and licensed as distributable. That's the primary reason that they're non-free. Debian doesn't have source, can't fix problems if they arise etc. That's the rationale for segmenting Debian's non-free into firmware (which almost all Linux distributions will then distribute identically without significant concerns) and the rest of Debian-provided non-free firmware.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 10:21 UTC (Mon) by Conan_Kudo (subscriber, #103240) [Link]

Yes, but that also includes the AMD and NVIDIA GPU firmware, which are required to make the open drivers for both GPUs functional. That firmware means that Mesa's VAAPI drivers will work too.

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 13:13 UTC (Mon) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link] (1 responses)

Drat it - one word too many left in. It should read with something of the sense given below:

That's the rationale for the split of Debian non-free into two parts - Debian non-free firmware as one part - and the *rest* of what is currently in Debian non-free as the other.

In the post of mine that this is a direct reply to, I left the word firmware on the end of the final sentence in error and made it a nonsense.
How come you never notice these things when re-reading the preview?

The disabling of hardware codecs in community distributions

Posted Oct 17, 2022 13:25 UTC (Mon) by Conan_Kudo (subscriber, #103240) [Link]

How come you never notice these things when re-reading the preview?

It's because you fill in everything in your head as you re-read and process it. You only notice once you have some distance, and by then it's too late.