Arch Linux drops Python 2

Posted Sep 27, 2022 12:28 UTC (Tue) by pizza (subscriber, #46)
In reply to: Arch Linux drops Python 2 by kleptog
Parent article: Arch Linux drops Python 2

> Sure, but when upgrading across versions of python, the issue is not that things break in subtle ways. Either it works, or it blows up. As such, simple smoke-tests across your application are sufficient to detect any issues

See, this tells me you've never had to deal with an even moderately complex python codebase.

As the language is dynamic, unless your "simple smoke test" results in the interpreter parsing _every single file_ then it's not even the most basic of smoke tests. Heck, even invoking every single method isn't sufficient because that doesn't guarantee that the _callers_ are doing the right thing in all cases.

Add to that that any python codebase inevitably pulls in a bazillion external pip modules, and those can and do break on a whim. So you either pin every specific version forever (which is particularly fun for python2 stuff now -- and heck, even older python3 codebases) or you'll have random "build" or runtime failures from one day's deployment to the next.

If you're not _constantly_ developing a given python codebase, it'll fall into ruin within a couple of years; That's the sad, objective truth -- My last two employers had to learn that the hard way (and they're in industries where 10+ year support windows are considered short)

Arch Linux drops Python 2

Posted Sep 27, 2022 14:40 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

> If you're not _constantly_ developing a given python codebase, it'll fall into ruin within a couple of years. That's the sad, objective truth.

That's overstating it quite a bit. If you have a complex Python codebase, it may need some maintenance to keep up with newer versions but how much and how often will vary depending on the features you use and the libraries you are relying on. Sometimes you do live in an ecosystem that is already heavily reliant on a language and there isn't much you can do about it but if you are starting new, I would recommend using alternatives like Go if the codebase is expected to live long and remain fairly untouched.

Arch Linux drops Python 2

Posted Sep 27, 2022 14:52 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> > Sure, but when upgrading across versions of python, the issue is not that things break in subtle ways. Either it works, or it blows up. As such, simple smoke-tests across your application are sufficient to detect any issues

> See, this tells me you've never had to deal with an even moderately complex python codebase.

Reality depends on the viewpoint of the observer :-)

And this discussion seems to emphasise that most strongly - "it works for me" is fine until you start dealing with a complex problem ... what did Einstein say? "Make things as simple as possible (but no simpler)".

Cheers,
Wol