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Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Nicholas Nethercote marks the 20th anniversary of the Valgrind 1.0 release.

It’s both delightful and surreal to see that Valgrind is still in wide use today. Julian [Seward’s] original goal was to raise the bar when it came to correctness for C and C++ programs. This has clearly been a huge success. Memcheck has found countless bugs in countless programs, and is a standard part of the testing setup for many of them.


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Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 27, 2022 13:09 UTC (Wed) by willy (subscriber, #9762) [Link] (16 responses)

I've been pronouncing valgrind wrongly /for twenty years/ ?!

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 27, 2022 13:54 UTC (Wed) by claude.bing (subscriber, #127877) [Link] (15 responses)

To be fair, /ˈvælɡrɪnd/ does not seem like the obvious choice.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 27, 2022 14:18 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (14 responses)

It's only obvious if you know your Norse legends! The name of the gate that stands before Valhalla, let alone its pronunciation, is not exactly the best-known part of the whole thing in the first place :) as is often true of these things, there is one single reference to it (in one stanza of Grímnismál). Even the pronunciation is somewhat guesswork after all this time.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 27, 2022 21:01 UTC (Wed) by willy (subscriber, #9762) [Link]

I thought I knew my Norse mythology. Roger Lancelyn Green must have omitted this key information from his translation.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 11:32 UTC (Thu) by ale2018 (guest, #128727) [Link]

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 11:46 UTC (Thu) by Sesse (subscriber, #53779) [Link] (11 responses)

I'm Norwegian, and I would never pronounce “val–” as /væl/. I mean, it's the same root as “Valhalla”, right?

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 13:33 UTC (Thu) by claude.bing (subscriber, #127877) [Link] (1 responses)

Valhalla and Valgrind both use the æ diaphoneme, which just represents a Near-open front unrounded vowel in the International Phonetic Alphabet. It's still pronounced 'val-' :)

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 14:59 UTC (Thu) by Sesse (subscriber, #53779) [Link]

In English, yes, but in anything descending from old Norse?

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 1:33 UTC (Fri) by HenrikH (subscriber, #31152) [Link] (8 responses)

It's not ae as in the Norwegian ae or the Swedish Ä, it's just the IPA way of describing the "long" version of A as in "tatoo" or "bad". So basically they just write how we Scandinavians pronounce the A in Valgrind/Valhall already.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 7:47 UTC (Fri) by Sesse (subscriber, #53779) [Link] (7 responses)

I wouldn't use the same sound in “bad” when saying “Valgrind”. I would use the /a/ as in “father”, just not as long. And the Wikipedia page on /æ/ suggests that in Norwegian, it's the sound used in “lær” :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGC1Th1iv8 uses the vowel sound I would expect (for the first sound), which is not the same as I use in “value”. Perhaps in “volume”, though :-)

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 8:34 UTC (Fri) by gevaerts (subscriber, #21521) [Link] (4 responses)

The problem with all those things is that I've heard English speakers say the a in "bad" or "father" in *so* many different ways that it doesn't really help at all

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 11:16 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (3 responses)

Bear in mind that English As She Is Spoke is a whole bunch of dialects, derived from similar languages that have morphed together, and then metamorphosed by nicking huge swathes of other languages.

So Scots, which is a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE to English, has different words, different pronouncation, different grammar, but being derived from Old Anglish (as opposed to English, derived from Saxon), comes from very similar roots and is mutually comprehensible (mostly). Just like Scouse or Geordie.

And then we have the Queens English, or Received Pronounciation, or BBC English, or whatever the snobs like to call it which - despite being the newest dialect - is taken to be gospel.

And the long a - as in "farther" - is very much a new, Queens English pronounciation acquired during the Frenchification of Modern English. My family still laugh sometimes at my flat a's in words like castle, or bath, despite the flat a being ye olde traditionally correct pronounciation EVERYWHERE.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for standards - and when I go up north the dialect sometimes is incomprehensible, but don't you dare tell me it's wrong - it's been around a lot longer than modern "correct" English.

Cheers,
Wol

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 30, 2022 21:17 UTC (Sat) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)

The long a thing wasn't acquired during Frenchification -- it was part of the dialect common in particular parts of the south-east much much *later* than Frenchification (like, 600 years later). The dialect differences in the UK before the advent of mass travel -- and to a considerable degree afterwards -- are quite remarkable. I can easily tell whether people were brought up in Hertfordshire like me purely from their accent, and can even often tell when people were brought up in the same *city*. Go all the way across Hertfordshire from where I was born and the accent is quite different to my ear -- and Hertfordshire is a small and homogenous county. Somewhere big and chaotic like Yorkshire or God forbid London has dozens of sub-regional accents, easily distinguishable even by non-natives (though London, being a melting pot, has such a chaos of accents that you probably need to be a professional to figure out what the hell is going on: it's not simply based on geographic divisions like Yorkshire more or less is).

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 30, 2022 21:55 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> The long a thing wasn't acquired during Frenchification -- it was part of the dialect common in particular parts of the south-east much much *later* than Frenchification (like, 600 years later).

600 years? "Modern English" is only 600 years old ... are you thinking of Normanisation?

I'm thinking of Frenchification - probably during the (late?) Georgian period - when it was fashionable for the nobility to speak French and write their English with French spellings ...

Cheers,
Wol

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 30, 2022 21:23 UTC (Sat) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

> And then we have the Queens English, or Received Pronounciation, or BBC English, or whatever the snobs like to call it which - despite being the newest dialect - is taken to be gospel.

RP is not by any means the newest dialect! It's old and has been wearing fuzzy slippers for quite some time now (and is little spoken any more: the accent spoken by, say, your average Cambridge grad is definitely not RP, and you basically never hear it even on the BBC any more unless you're listening to old recordings). Listen to what the kids are speaking in London now: forget the grammar and even vocabulary, even the phonetics are different. To me as a speaker of something quite like the Cambridge accent who grew up surrounded by the levelled accents of the 1980s south-east, it's amazing. Some people speaking Multicultural London English sound almost like they're singing to my ear :) my niece can code-switch in and out of that effortlessly: one dialect speaking to her friends, something quite different speaking to boring old adults like us.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 18:15 UTC (Fri) by HenrikH (subscriber, #31152) [Link]

If so I wonder if simply the English pages for the pronunciation is wrong or we are missing something. Don't know if Norwegian have the same rules as Swedish but most English pronounce Valhall and Valgrind as as Swede would do if they had been spelled as Vallhall and Vallgrind since the double l:s turn the preceeding a from a long a to a short a.

In the original Grímnismál it's written as Valgrind in old Icelandic (which is as close to old norse as we can come) and not as Vælgrind. And Icelandic have æ just as Danish and Norwegian does so it's not omitted due to the character not being there.

Valgrind heitir,
er stendr velli á
heilög fyr helgom durom;
forn er sú grind,
en þat fáir vito,
hvé hón er í lás lokin.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 29, 2022 18:19 UTC (Fri) by HenrikH (subscriber, #31152) [Link]

Sorry for double posting but there is not post edit.. The TikToker from your YT video pronounce it exactly as I expected with what we call the long A in Swedish.

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 27, 2022 15:41 UTC (Wed) by lkundrak (subscriber, #43452) [Link] (3 responses)

It's an excellent tool, that's for sure. For NetworkManager development we use it everyday and has found countless bugs, lot of them before they could affect the users.

But I'm never going to regret that they decided to call the core dumps "vgcore," not "grindcore." :(

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 16:17 UTC (Thu) by intelfx (subscriber, #130118) [Link] (1 responses)

> But I'm never going to regret that they decided to call the core dumps "vgcore," not "grindcore." :(

Never going to _regret_, or never going to _stop regretting_? :-)

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 18:44 UTC (Thu) by lkundrak (subscriber, #43452) [Link]

Oh no, can't fix it now!

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 30, 2022 1:08 UTC (Sat) by scientes (guest, #83068) [Link]

> For NetworkManager development

I would really love to have wireguard support that is network namespace aware:

https://www.wireguard.com/netns/

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 9:50 UTC (Thu) by m.alessandrini (guest, #36991) [Link] (1 responses)

Thank you guys, Valgrind saved my day several times!

Nethercote: Twenty years of Valgrind

Posted Jul 28, 2022 11:05 UTC (Thu) by m.alessandrini (guest, #36991) [Link]

Especially with "heisenbugs" which disappear when observed in the debugger.


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