Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 24, 2022 16:14 UTC (Mon) by beagnach (guest, #32987)
In reply to: Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy by kleptog
Parent article: Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

The netfilter core team has a long <strikethrough>paper-</strikethrough>trail in the form of email announcements and other interactions with the wider community. It would be very very hard for someone to plausibly make a false claim in this regard. Also I don't think that courts absolutely require formal incorporation to accept the validity of a group acting as an entity, someone with appropriate expertise might care to comment on that aspect.

Bottom line - the current informal nature of the netfilter core team doesn't nullify the effectiveness of the settlement, but it may well be wise for them to move to some more formal arrangement.

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 24, 2022 16:56 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (7 responses)

Also I don't think that courts absolutely require formal incorporation to accept the validity of a group acting as an entity, someone with appropriate expertise might care to comment on that aspect.

German law stipulates that if a number of people (such as the “netfilter core team”) act together towards a common goal even without incorporating, they form a “Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts” (GbR, roughly translatable as “civil-law association”), even in the absence of a written agreement, so given that this is taking place in Germany, that should be OK. If a GbR participates in commerce as its own entity, it has an independent legal existence (e.g., it – rather than its individual members – can sue someone or be sued by someone), even though its members are personally liable for any debts that it incurs.

(Disclaimer: not a lawyer.)

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 24, 2022 20:35 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Similar to an English Partnership, although I suspect over here there may need to be at least some form of formal agreement.

Cheers,
Wol

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 24, 2022 22:35 UTC (Mon) by warrax (subscriber, #103205) [Link]

Sounds like a "forening" in Denmark. (Which is of course a cognate of vereinung, but doesn't mean quite the same thing.)

It's just a loose association of people with a stated common purpose. I do think there is a (probably vague) legal requirement that they do have a have agreed-upon bylaws, where some parts have to be spelled out, e.g. "how are the bylaws changed, by percentage of votes", etc...

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 25, 2022 7:46 UTC (Tue) by t-v (guest, #112111) [Link] (4 responses)

From reading the (German) settlement:
The settlement is between Pablo Neira Ayuso, Harald Welte, and József Kadlecik as the plaintiffs and Patrick McHardy as the respondent, so it is legally binding to those four as individuals. They have the requirement to seek agreement for copyright complaints around netfilter that they want to file.
Third parties can recur to this requirement as a defense to claims brought by any of them.
There is no association being formed here between them.
An interesting detail is that the plaintiffs bear the costs of the lawsuit, but I guess this is the compromise part of getting a settlement. Also, there are two cases listed as exempt, I don't know what these are.

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 25, 2022 7:57 UTC (Tue) by bosyber (guest, #84963) [Link] (2 responses)

The two exempt cases I indeed also didn't find out what they are, but it might well just be because they are currently going on (no verdict yet in either), so (not-a-lawyer-not-even-in-DE) that this settlement cannot (automatically) end those, possibly because other parties are (also) involved, for example, companies that are being sued for copyright infringement. The settlement might end up playing a role there though.

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 25, 2022 15:06 UTC (Tue) by armijn (subscriber, #3653) [Link] (1 responses)

There actually is a verdict in the first case (and has been for a bit over 4 years as it was decided in November 2017): https://dejure.org/ext/945f91adbb3ce04fcddbfa5d83994382

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 26, 2022 13:12 UTC (Wed) by bosyber (guest, #84963) [Link]

Ah, thanks. Sorry, I guess my lack of practice in looking for Hamburg and other German court documents showing there.

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 25, 2022 8:58 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

There is no association being formed here between them.

As a matter of fact there is (in German civil law, the GbR is, so to speak, the “default case” of associations, which happens automatically when some people act together towards a common goal – no explicit written or oral agreement is required, it can be implied in fact), but as long as they sued McHardy in their own personal capacity and not as “the Netfilter core team”, that association does not appear as a separate legal entity.

Netfilter project: Settlement with Patrick McHardy

Posted Jan 27, 2022 11:09 UTC (Thu) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

But what happens if there's a fallout between the members of the core team? Someone is kicked out, but the kicked out person does not accept this? OK, in this case the project has probably lot of other problems too...