Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
We will rewrite the new UI as a web browser-based UI using existing Cockpit technology. We are taking this approach because Cockpit is a mature solution with great support for the backend (Anaconda DBus). The Cockpit team is also providing us with great support and they have significant knowledge which we could use. We thank them for helping us a lot with the prototype and creating a foundation for the future development.
Posted Jan 11, 2022 17:07 UTC (Tue)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link] (6 responses)
Back in the 1990ies I was one of those proposing to use browsers as the "one GUI for all".
These days I do hope that there be one or two browser-free rocky islands out there where I can hide while I'm still around. Which, luckily, won't be for very long.
Posted Jan 11, 2022 19:01 UTC (Tue)
by geert (subscriber, #98403)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 12, 2022 3:45 UTC (Wed)
by k8to (guest, #15413)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2022 16:05 UTC (Thu)
by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2022 5:38 UTC (Thu)
by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
[Link] (2 responses)
TL;DW: It's a semi-comedic sci-fi/alt-future video essay describing the role of Javascript (whose pronunciation has apparently changed to "Yavascript" for some reason) as the new assembly language, in a brave new world where the DOM lives in the kernel (DOM = document object model - the data model used by modern web browsers in the real world to describe an HTML page together with its associated styles and scripts) and userspace lives in the Javascript VM (C stuff compiled via asm.js, non-C stuff transpiled directly into pure Javascript). However, a lack of foresight causes the speech to misidentify the calamity that began in 2020 as a war rather than a pandemic.
Posted Jan 13, 2022 6:24 UTC (Thu)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
This is a pronunciation used in Russia (and some other countries), because that's how the name of the Java Island is pronounced.
Posted Jan 13, 2022 7:46 UTC (Thu)
by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325)
[Link]
Posted Jan 11, 2022 18:25 UTC (Tue)
by mss (subscriber, #138799)
[Link] (13 responses)
Posted Jan 11, 2022 18:45 UTC (Tue)
by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
[Link] (10 responses)
Of course, if it's "fancy" enough and w3m works, then even ssh can be used to handle a Fedora install :) .
Posted Jan 11, 2022 20:41 UTC (Tue)
by bartoc (guest, #124262)
[Link] (5 responses)
It is unfortunate that a browser will be required, since even firefox (let alone chrome) is developed less out in the open than GTK.
Posted Jan 11, 2022 21:15 UTC (Tue)
by dtlin (subscriber, #36537)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Jan 11, 2022 22:05 UTC (Tue)
by adam820 (subscriber, #101353)
[Link] (1 responses)
https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.cockpit_project.Cock...
Posted Jan 11, 2022 22:15 UTC (Tue)
by dtlin (subscriber, #36537)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2022 3:18 UTC (Thu)
by epg (guest, #34047)
[Link] (1 responses)
"Alternatively, you can run the graphical interface even when the target machine's video hardware is not supported by the XFree86 X server; simply set the display boot parameter and run the installer on an X server elsewhere on your local network."
https://web.archive.org/web/20031218123658/http://hackers...
Pretty sure Branden Robinson came up with that idea when we were at the office way too late one night, and that we were the first to do it...
Posted Jan 24, 2022 17:59 UTC (Mon)
by branden (guest, #7029)
[Link]
Reading through that manual (I think I wrote a lot of it?) brings back tons of memories.
It wasn't hard to do the remote X thing--that's one of the things the protocol was designed for.
I remember the main thing Ian Murdock having to say about our installer was that it looked like a "shoddy product". Good times.
Posted Jan 11, 2022 21:15 UTC (Tue)
by epithumia (subscriber, #23370)
[Link] (3 responses)
Perhaps soon you'll be able to connect with a browser, which I suppose is fine, but it doesn't really offer that much in the way of new capability. I imagine this is primarily an issue of simplification of code maintenance.
Posted Jan 12, 2022 5:36 UTC (Wed)
by champtar (subscriber, #128673)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Jan 13, 2022 2:00 UTC (Thu)
by m4rtink (guest, #95458)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2022 1:58 UTC (Thu)
by m4rtink (guest, #95458)
[Link]
- rendering happens on the machine, so slower machines (cheap ARM SBCs, etc.) might struggle
In comparison a modern remote Web UI renders on client, transfers very little and all data goes over HTTPS.
Posted Jan 13, 2022 1:53 UTC (Thu)
by m4rtink (guest, #95458)
[Link]
https://cockpit-project.org/guide/latest/cockpit-desktop.1
This works very well so far and IMHO already quite well used and tested.
Its Python/GTK wrapper over Webkit, so it actually does not drag in any extra stuff on the installation image as all three are already present.
And of course if you wanted a really small image, you can make a headless one and still have a nice remote GUI support. :)
Posted Jan 13, 2022 23:46 UTC (Thu)
by gerdesj (subscriber, #5446)
[Link]
All the installers I use in anger are console based. Yes, I have seen the pretty ones but I can't be arsed with them in general. Linux (and of course the BSDs etc) lends itself to a very simple install model: partition the disc and slap on enough code to get an interface up and running that can be used to get more stuff as needed.
Linux installers are streets ahead of Windows which has improved somewhat itself. I love the Debian and Ubuntu pretty jobbies way of slapping code on the box whilst still asking questions. Sadly Windows then fucks up by asking for permission to intrude on your life every time you create a new user profile. It's so needy that it is becoming embarrassing and quite hard to explain to end users.
Posted Jan 12, 2022 13:00 UTC (Wed)
by ddevault (subscriber, #99589)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Jan 12, 2022 13:46 UTC (Wed)
by amacater (subscriber, #790)
[Link] (2 responses)
Seriously, there need to be really good, small, quick, text only / preseeded / Kickstarted
Posted Jan 12, 2022 14:18 UTC (Wed)
by adam820 (subscriber, #101353)
[Link] (1 responses)
Why do you think that's disappearing? If it's still making use of Anaconda's core on the backend, I would presume all of that would still work, including the text-only installation mode and passing a remote URL and Kickstart URL as installation parameters on boot?
Posted Jan 13, 2022 2:06 UTC (Thu)
by m4rtink (guest, #95458)
[Link]
[0] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/24/html/Insta...
Posted Jan 13, 2022 15:04 UTC (Thu)
by smoogen (subscriber, #97)
[Link]
1. Move to another OS. The Ubuntu and Debian installers have remained text only. Arch is good for people who really like to dig down into the internals of a system.
I can also say that for the most part low-end systems are not a target for Fedora anymore. The current installer needs things like 2.5 GB or more at times.
Posted Jan 12, 2022 14:26 UTC (Wed)
by wtarreau (subscriber, #51152)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Jan 12, 2022 14:31 UTC (Wed)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (3 responses)
The linked comments on that post indicates that they are planning to use WebKit that calls into the existing Anaconda backend via D-Bus (retaining the separate TUI, kickstart etc) and works similar to the existing Cockpit desktop (https://cockpit-project.org/guide/latest/cockpit-desktop.1) Don't see a chicken and egg issue here.
Posted Jan 12, 2022 14:54 UTC (Wed)
by wtarreau (subscriber, #51152)
[Link] (2 responses)
Also reading "its just a simple Python wrapper over Webkit" isn't exactly something that triggers a "wow looks rock solid then" feeling inside me, but they explain they're already relying on this so it shouldn't add any extra weakness nor dependency at least.
Posted Jan 12, 2022 17:25 UTC (Wed)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (1 responses)
https://cockpit-project.org/ is a web interface for administering servers. Think Webmin but much more modular and sane interface with support for a wide variety of things -> https://cockpit-project.org/applications.html
A glance at https://cockpit-project.org/blog/ will give you an idea of what they support as well. Sounds like the installer team wants to leverage all the work done within Cockpit project instead of maintaining their own GTK based interface.
Posted Jan 13, 2022 2:12 UTC (Thu)
by m4rtink (guest, #95458)
[Link]
Posted Jan 13, 2022 23:09 UTC (Thu)
by Russell (guest, #1453)
[Link]
This team is building a job for life. Perhaps the team needs to be smaller
Posted Jan 21, 2022 20:58 UTC (Fri)
by Devinprater (guest, #144011)
[Link]
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
- all the graphical deps need to be on the image, making the image larger
- the rendered bitmaps are then transferred over network, which is not very efficient
- VNC traffic is not encrypted and VNC has a low maximum password leangth (!)
- lastly, you need a VNC client installed, while almost anyone will likely have a browser
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
I want my servers to be minimal and my desktops to be maximal.
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
type installs that are lightweight enough that they can be gone through in five minutes
/ scripted. If RHEL etc. really want this - it does need to be so secured from remote misuse as to be hard to use.
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
[1] https://anaconda-installer.readthedocs.io/en/latest/kickstart.html
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
2. Fork and take over the older installer you like. Very few seem to ever take this route in the Fedora world compared to the 100 deviations of Debian there. I think it is because it is an enormous amount of work.
3. Stick with the last version of the OS you liked. Lots of people take this route with systems from Fedora 8 still showing up daily.
4. Watch them either accomplish what they set out or learn lessons about why they couldn't.
5. Just write a kickstart and use that to do the installs.
6. Use a different tool to build images that you will run.
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)
Anaconda is getting a new suit (Fedora Community Blog)