Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 3, 2021 22:29 UTC (Sun) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
In reply to: Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc by mpr22
Parent article: Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Then why doesn't this argument applies to other libraries?

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 3, 2021 23:32 UTC (Sun) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link] (11 responses)

An interesting question that would have to be answered contextually, considering factors like "is this library one of many implementations of a well-established international standard?"

I mean, I see no incoherency in someone simultaneously believing (a) that releasing new libraries under LGPL2 is a bad idea now that LGPL 3 exists and (b) that pushing glibc, in particular, from LGPL2 to LPGL3 is likely to be a net loss to the cause of advancing software freedom.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 4:06 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (10 responses)

> An interesting question that would have to be answered contextually, considering factors like "is this library one of many implementations of a well-established international standard?"

Except that the FSF doesn't provide any guidelines for that. Their recommendation is basically "GPLv3 only". There's no nuance.

E.g. FSF pushed Samba (implements an international standard) to switch to GPLv3. It resulted in Samba losing at least some relevancy.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 9:40 UTC (Mon) by immibis (subscriber, #105511) [Link] (9 responses)

Do elaborate. I have never heard of Samba losing relevancy because of licensing, and I have a close relative who works on Samba full-time. Which relevancy has it lost?

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 9:44 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (8 responses)

For example, macOS no longer ships Samba. Apple reimplemented SMB from scratch to avoid shipping GPLv3.

Google did the same with Android Samba Client a few years ago, except they implemented it even more poorly.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 11:14 UTC (Mon) by immibis (subscriber, #105511) [Link] (3 responses)

So in other words, the only high-quality SMB implementation is open source? If you don't accept open source you sacrifice quality? Seems like a win for open source

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 21:55 UTC (Mon) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

Until nobody uses the Free Software version because it's too much hassle.

Oh - and how do you know whether or not Apple's and Android's version are Open Source or not? Samba is Free Software, not Open Source. Not much different in practice, very different in philosophy.

Cheers,
Wol

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 5, 2021 9:39 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (1 responses)

Until nobody uses the Free Software version because it's too much hassle.

If all you're interested in is using Samba, the issue is moot because the GPL (whether 2 or 3) only impacts distribution, not use.

Even if you're planning to distribute Samba, the hassle is fairly minimal and doesn't really differ a lot between GPLv2 and GPLv3. Where it gets more involved is if you want to distribute your own patched version of Samba, or your own software that is based on Samba.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 6, 2021 16:40 UTC (Wed) by immibis (subscriber, #105511) [Link]

I suspect they are running into the anti-tivoization requirement. If they put Samba on their product they must enable users to replace the Samba that's installed on their product.

And, you know, good for them. I wouldn't want to empower companies making anti-free products either. If they want the benefits of free software, they know how to get them.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 13:43 UTC (Mon) by Kluge (subscriber, #2881) [Link] (2 responses)

It would be self-defeating for the FSF to let Apple's GPL3 paranoia dictate their licensing decisions.

I don't know anything about the circumstances of Google's decision.

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 4, 2021 17:52 UTC (Mon) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

Well, this kind of paranoia DOES affect the glibc licensing decision. Why not Samba?

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 5, 2021 9:40 UTC (Tue) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

Because Samba pretty much stands on its own and doesn't get linked into all sorts of other programs?

Ratiu: A tale of two toolchains and glibc

Posted Oct 5, 2021 21:27 UTC (Tue) by jra (subscriber, #55261) [Link]

> Google did the same with Android Samba Client a few years ago, except they implemented it even more poorly.

Just noticed this. This isn't true. The "Android Samba Client" release (I think it's now unsupported) was a port of libsmbclient from Samba.