|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

London is on Berlin time?

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 3, 2021 7:07 UTC (Sun) by smurf (subscriber, #17840)
In reply to: London is on Berlin time? by NYKevin
Parent article: A fork for the time-zone database?

> The whole point of tzdb is that you pick e.g. Europe/Berlin, or Europe/Paris, or America/New_York, or whatever you fancy, and then it tracks the local time in that city indefinitely into the future, regardless of geopolitical upheaval.

Yeah, that is/was the idea. The whole brouhaha we're discussing here originates in the brain-dead (IMHO) idea that right now Europe/Stockholm and Europe/Berlin are the same, and Berlin is larger than Stockholm, so the tzdb maintainer feels free to alias the former to the latter – regardless of the fact that this is not historically correct. Plus, if Stockholm ever decides to diverge from Berlin's rules in the future, a rather inconveniently large number of Swedes will need to update their tzdb and then manually fix their timezone settings.


to post comments

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 3, 2021 18:47 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

EGGSACKERLEY !!!

Now let's throw in the FACT that - even right now - Berlin does not have the authority to decide what timezone Stockholm follows, and aliasing Berlin to Stockholm is just plain stupid.

Okay. Let's (for the sake of convenience/accuracy/whatever) call our base timezones "Meridian0" or "Meridian150W" or "Meridian900E" etc. (I've multiplied latitude by 10 so it makes half-hour zones easier - go back to 1800 or so and Bristol would have been "Meridian75W" by that standard...)

Then we have the POLITICAL AUTHORITY that sets summer time - probably the EU that says "Summertime starts last Sunday in March, ends last Sunday in October, at 0100 Meridian150W" - lets call those rules EU-EST.

And lastly we have Sweden/Stockholm that says "base meridian is Meridian150W, Daylight saving is EU-EST, applies 1970 onwards" or whatever.

Then if a country decides to change timezone, eg the UK shifts to European time, we just change Britain/London to say Meridian0 until 2024, Meridian150W from 2025, EU-EST applies from 1970 onwards".

As smurf says, the idiocy is in keying a bunch of TIMEZONE data on a city LOCATION. Which fucks up any other cities that just happen at present to be in the same time zone. Imagine what grief it's going to cause if Britain DOES go onto CET/CEST and tzdb changes our timezone to Berlin ... (or rather, changes Berlin time to London!!!)

Cheers,
Wol

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 3, 2021 19:10 UTC (Sun) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link]

The Leonard Cohen school of tzdb - "First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin" doesn't really work, does it.

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 3, 2021 19:50 UTC (Sun) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link] (4 responses)

> Plus, if Stockholm ever decides to diverge from Berlin's rules in the future, a rather inconveniently large number of Swedes will need to update their tzdb and then manually fix their timezone settings.

I agree about needing to update tzdb (this is a fact of life in all jurisdictions, since we cannot predict the future), but why would they need to update their settings instead of continuing to use Stockholm like they were already doing? It's not like this tzdata update makes "TZ=Europe/Stockholm" stop working.

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 3, 2021 22:36 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (2 responses)

Except that Europe/Stockholm WILL stop working (correctly).

Because this change means that the real Stockholm will be deleted and lost.

Which means that the historical data used for Stockholm will actually be the data for Berlin (which may, or may not, be the same).

Cheers,
Wol

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 4, 2021 18:40 UTC (Mon) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

Surprise: They are not.

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 4, 2021 22:28 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

Which means that the historical data used for Stockholm will actually be the data for Berlin (which may, or may not, be the same).

Right now, two minutes with zdump should make it obvious that they're emphatically not the same.

London is on Berlin time?

Posted Oct 4, 2021 18:47 UTC (Mon) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

Yes it will stop working. (Ignoring for the moment that it already doesn't work for certain dates before 1970.) The system will notice that E/Stockholm is an alias for to E/Berlin and it *will* store the latter.

And since neither Eggbert nor anybody else can predict whether that alias holds in the future, adding such an alias is Just Plain Wrong.


Copyright © 2025, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds