GNOME 41 released
The most notable changes this in release include an improved Software app, new multitasking settings, and enhanced power management features. With these changes, GNOME is smarter, more flexible, and offers a richer and more engaging experience than ever before.The new release also comes with significant improvements for developers, including a new developer documentation website, a major new version of the Human Interface Guidelines, new features in the Builder IDE, GTK 4 enhancements, and much more.
Posted Sep 22, 2021 19:04 UTC (Wed)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link] (5 responses)
GTK 4 is located in elements/sdk/gtk.bst.
An element that depends on GTK 4 needs to have the string 'sdk/gtk.bst' listed in its "depends:" list.
So,
It gives a rough answer. We need to look recursively at the reverse deps. (Because an app may depend on another library which in turn depends on GTK 4, and the GTK 4 dependency can be listed only in the "middleware" component, not the app).
Short answer: not a lot, from a quick look I think that *all* GNOME Core apps are still using GTK 3.
xdg-desktop-portal-gnome is not an app, gnome-shell uses a little GTK 4 (but of course the shell is not an app either), and nothing in gnome-build-meta depends on 'sdk/gtksourceview.bst' (the version of that library that has been ported to GTK 4). There are just a few apps in "world" that depend on GTK 4.
Posted Sep 22, 2021 19:21 UTC (Wed)
by ebassi (subscriber, #54855)
[Link]
A question that nobody asked, mind you…
> Short answer: not a lot, from a quick look I think that *all* GNOME Core apps are still using GTK 3.
Applications don't port themselves; I mean: it took two cycles to get GNOME 3.0 out of the door with basically the most core applications ported to GTK 3, back in 2011, and it was a *death march*. Considering that a bunch of applications had to suffer the brunt of the early 2 → 3 transition, with minimal API feedback.
I guess you could say we learned something from the previous major cycle: don' try to cram everything into a flag day. Which is, incidentally, the whole point of decoupling GNOME's version from the version of GTK. Who would have thought.
If you want to track the port of GNOME applications to GTK4, by the way, there's a handy issue: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/Initiatives/-/issues/26
There's lot of work in progress, mostly blocked by a couple of dependencies—really, though, mainly WebKitGTK; the Foundation helped by funding the initial port, but more work is required, so help is welcome!
On the other hand, thanks to the Rust bindings for GTK4 being already available, various new applications written using GTK4 have already popped up, which is great.
Posted Sep 22, 2021 19:24 UTC (Wed)
by barthalion (subscriber, #89844)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 22, 2021 19:33 UTC (Wed)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link]
Posted Sep 23, 2021 4:30 UTC (Thu)
by ncm (guest, #165)
[Link] (1 responses)
So they learned something this time.
Posted Sep 23, 2021 12:18 UTC (Thu)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link]
GNOME 40 is just "equal to" GNOME 3.40, with the release of GTK 4.0 at approximately the same time. GNOME 40 has seen a small change to its shell interface (gnome-shell).
I think that either (or both):
1) Porting a module from GTK 2 -> 3 was easier to manage than GTK 3 -> 4, even if in both cases, it can involve a lot of work (see for example GIMP still using GTK 2 for its latest stable version, they are currently working on porting to GTK 3; or Xamarin Studio, stuck at GTK 2).
2) The "gold age" of GNOME is gone, it was in 2005 or so, with funding from Nokia etc, there were more developers at that time, more resources. Now, I think that GNOME is a bit in decline.
That's why very few core apps are now ported to GTK 4.
(former GNOME developer here, no longer very active).
Posted Sep 23, 2021 16:33 UTC (Thu)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (15 responses)
Posted Sep 28, 2021 14:00 UTC (Tue)
by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595)
[Link] (10 responses)
Posted Sep 28, 2021 17:53 UTC (Tue)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Sep 30, 2021 0:31 UTC (Thu)
by MrWim (subscriber, #47432)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Sep 30, 2021 7:53 UTC (Thu)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (7 responses)
(To be clear: I am not casting random aspersions on Gnome extension writers here. Those people are doing God's work and Gnome would be barely usable for me personally without several specific extensions).
Answering "but I don't have such a problem" is neither informative nor helpful.
Posted Oct 1, 2021 13:57 UTC (Fri)
by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
[Link] (6 responses)
It's a data point. Do you want people to say "I enabled 10 random extensions, frobbed some icons, and then it crashed"? That seems less useful than "I've been using it fine" to me. Maybe folks are still trying to get it to crash and it has just been stable since you asked your question ;) . Maybe if you're looking for more specifics, could you maybe outline what exactly you're seeking?
Posted Oct 1, 2021 18:27 UTC (Fri)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Oct 1, 2021 18:51 UTC (Fri)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (3 responses)
Going back to what you said originally:
> It's September 2021. Do buggy shell extensions still crash your whole Gnome Wayland session?
It is unclear why you felt the need to point out which month and year it is if it just a good faith question on extensions because that comes off as snarky. From the question itself, it is ambiguous until you clarified later your concern was architectural and not about buggy extensions themselves and you responded with more snark towards someone sharing their experience with extension. If you were to rephrase the question more directly, it would be simply be to ask something along the following:
Has there been any recent architectural changes in GNOME Shell that prevent potentially buggy extensions from crashing the session?
Hope that helps.
Posted Oct 1, 2021 21:42 UTC (Fri)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Oct 1, 2021 23:22 UTC (Fri)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Oct 2, 2021 10:38 UTC (Sat)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link]
Posted Oct 3, 2021 13:02 UTC (Sun)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link]
Fedora has the retrace server, collecting data about crashes.
Example for the gnome-shell component:
https://retrace.fedoraproject.org/faf/summary/?component_...
Posted Oct 3, 2021 12:48 UTC (Sun)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link] (2 responses)
Not only buggy shell extensions, but a bug in gnome-shell itself (or one of its library dependency) can make the whole GNOME Wayland session to crash (which means: all the apps crash as well, losing unsaved data).
See:
I wonder, is KDE Plasma any better, architecture-wise, in that regard?
Posted Oct 3, 2021 16:27 UTC (Sun)
by cmm (guest, #81305)
[Link] (1 responses)
(What particularly amuses me about the whole {Gnome,Wayland,X} (x) {RedHat,Xorg,FreeDesktop,Gnome Foundation} and the respective {hierarchies,priorities,bug trackers} is that it's basically the same handful of folks with one main source of funding. So maybe, I dunno, don't rush the X deprecation before Wayland is actually dependable?)
Posted Oct 3, 2021 18:21 UTC (Sun)
by swilmet (subscriber, #98424)
[Link]
Posted Oct 5, 2021 3:00 UTC (Tue)
by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
[Link]
https://arcan-fe.com/2017/12/24/crash-resilient-wayland-compositing/
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/
GTK 3 is located in elements/sdk/gtk+-3.bst.
Example for libadwaita (part of "world", not GNOME Core):
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-build-meta/-/blob/ma...
```
$ git grep -F 'sdk/gtk.bst'
elements/core-deps/xdg-desktop-portal-gnome.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/core/gnome-shell.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/sdk-platform.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/sdk/gtksourceview.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/gnome-chess.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/gnome-todo.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/gtkmm.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/libadwaita.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/libshumate.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
elements/world/polari.bst:- sdk/gtk.bst
```
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
How many GTK 4 apps part of GNOME Core?
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
My failure to communicate is manifest, but I honestly struggle to see why.
GNOME 41 released
> My failure to communicate is manifest, but I honestly struggle to see why
GNOME 41 released
Perhaps you could address the question, now that we are hopefully done discussing my manners?
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1367666
"[Wayland] Stability is worse compared to X11 session due to intolerance for display server or gnome-shell crashes"
GNOME 41 released
Plasma does not (to my knowledge) has an ability to run arbitrary unsandboxed third-party code inside its display server process, so it has an easier task here.
GNOME 41 released
GNOME 41 released