Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 2, 2021 20:10 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
In reply to: Emacs discusses web-based development workflows by NYKevin
Parent article: Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

> (This is the American perspective, where to a first approximation, everyone drives an automatic, and many people have never driven a stick. In Europe, for reasons which are unclear to me, everyone drives a stick.)

Less so nowadays, but sticks are noticeably more efficient (greater mpg), and fuel is a *LOT* more expensive.

Cheers,
Wol

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 2, 2021 22:30 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (4 responses)

> Less so nowadays, but sticks are noticeably more efficient (greater mpg), and fuel is a *LOT* more expensive.

In recent years, in the real world, automatics are more fuel efficient than the average people driving a stick (which itself is a tiny percentage in the US). If you do a comparison with hybrids, there is no competition at all. Fuel emission standards in US are why there is very little manuals even being sold in US and the market is increasingly gearing towards hybrids.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 7:13 UTC (Fri) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (3 responses)

Yes, I think the fuel efficiency argument is no longer true. However, it's a manual transmission is a lot simpler and cheaper to fix than an automatic transmission (where if something goes wrong, you pretty much just replace the whole thing.

I drive a stick and I'll be sad if/when stickshifts become unavailable here in Canada. Coincidentally, I also use emacs. And I'm in my 50s. I wonder if those things are correlated?

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 9:18 UTC (Fri) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (2 responses)

Here in Germany, most people learn to drive stick in driving school – in fact it used to be the case that if you passed your driving test on an automatic, your license would be restricted so you could only ever drive automatics, which given that they're fairly rare hereabouts would be quite inconvenient.

Automatics, apart from being more expensive and less fuel-efficient, used to be seen mostly as cars for the elderly and/or medically impaired, but especially with electric cars and driver's assistance systems tied to automatics being on the rise, attitudes are changing. The law was recently changed to make it easier for holders of automatic-only licenses to transition to stick shift after all; presumably this is in preparation of a time when most cars will not have a manual transmission, driver's ed will take place mostly on such cars, and stick shift will become more of a curiosity for people with specialised or vintage vehicles.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 10:17 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> Here in Germany, most people learn to drive stick in driving school – in fact it used to be the case that if you passed your driving test on an automatic, your license would be restricted so you could only ever drive automatics, which given that they're fairly rare hereabouts would be quite inconvenient.

That's European regs. Class B is stick shift, or there's Class B (auto) for automatics only. Which one you get depends on what sort of vehicle you take your test in - upgrading is a simple matter of retaking your test in a stick. That said, retaking your test is probably "fun" for an experienced driver because of all the bad habits you'vve picked up ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 4, 2021 19:10 UTC (Sat) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

As a matter of fact, here in Germany the law was recently changed to say that if you take your driving test on an automatic, you don't have to take another driving test (with an official examiner in the rear seat) in order to be allowed to drive stick. To get your license amended, all you need to do now is present a certificate from a driving school saying that you took a certain number of lessons in driving stick and managed it to the driving teacher's satisfaction.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 9:36 UTC (Fri) by farnz (subscriber, #17727) [Link] (3 responses)

Not true of the last ten years or so - automatics are more fuel efficient nowadays. Two reasons:

Some automatics are clutch-based transmissions instead of torque converter with lockup, which gets you the same mechanical efficiency through the gearbox, but with the computer control making better choices of gear than the human in the driver's seat.
Torque converter style automatics now have more gears than a human can reasonably row through; 8 and 10 speed are not uncommon in the market. This means that the gearbox is able to keep the engine in the most efficient part of its rev range where a manual gearbox has to use a compromise gear - e.g. a 6 speed might be best in 4th at a given speed, where the 8 speed can use the equivalent of 4.4th and get better engine efficiency.

Of course, electric cars resolve this by getting high fuel economy with a fixed gear train instead of using a gearbox - but that's a whole different story.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 17:28 UTC (Fri) by JanC_ (guest, #34940) [Link] (2 responses)

Some electrical cars use a CVT gearbox (possibly built into the engine) and/or a separate gear set for riding uphill (or also in other situations maybe?), but it’s true that they don’t have clutch-based stick shifts.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 3, 2021 22:48 UTC (Fri) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link] (1 responses)

Almost all purely electric cars have direct connection from the motor(s) to wheels, through a fixed-gear gearbox.

Emacs discusses web-based development workflows

Posted Sep 7, 2021 1:09 UTC (Tue) by JanC_ (guest, #34940) [Link]

I know most commercial electrical cars do right now, but I saw e.g. one Belgian solar race car which had a purposely built 2-gear gearbox built into the motor package (by the manufacturer/sponsor), which helped them win a solar race somewhere in South America because it allowed them to go up steep climbs more efficiently.

I suppose something similar could also be useful for e.g. electric trucks.

Hybrids are more likely to use something like a CVT, from what I understand.