30 Years ago...
I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing since april, and is starting to get ready.
After all of these years, it still feels like it's "starting to get ready";
what a ride it has been.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 13:24 UTC (Wed)
by andi8086 (guest, #153876)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 26, 2021 9:58 UTC (Thu)
by cpitrat (subscriber, #116459)
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Posted Aug 25, 2021 14:20 UTC (Wed)
by pasch (guest, #153804)
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Posted Aug 25, 2021 14:27 UTC (Wed)
by eplanit (guest, #121769)
[Link] (16 responses)
We need a new Linus to create a viable, competitive alternative in the mobile space. Android is a good starting point, but so far no alternatives seem that viable.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 15:10 UTC (Wed)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link]
One of the things that made Linux possible is that PC:s at the time were a relatively standard and open hardware target. The first Linux kernels ran only on 386 -based ISA PC clones, and I recall Linus did not even plan to port it to other CPU:s initially.
The problem with Linux on mobiles is they are all very different, with proprietary and undocumented chips.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 17:32 UTC (Wed)
by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
[Link] (14 responses)
If Linus hadn't come along, one of the BSDs probably would have taken its place as the Free Software OS of choice. One of the things that gave Linux its opening was that the BSDs were still tied up in legal issues with ATT, but the first release of NetBSD was only about a year and a half later. Linus hadn't come along, the pent-up demand for an Intel-compatible, Free Software Unix clone would have latched onto BSD once it became available, and it likely would have filled the niche Linux does today.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 22:16 UTC (Wed)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
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Posted Aug 26, 2021 0:18 UTC (Thu)
by jmclnx (guest, #72456)
[Link] (2 responses)
Also I think the infighting that spawned the various BSDs may have slowed things down. But I wonder if we would be in a completely different world.
Posted Aug 26, 2021 3:13 UTC (Thu)
by willy (subscriber, #9762)
[Link]
Funny how Linus' aversion to floating point has served him well for 30 years :-)
Posted Aug 26, 2021 16:57 UTC (Thu)
by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75)
[Link]
One of the hard things with hypotheticals like this is whether people would have made the same kinds of decisions in the alternate universe. Would BSD have been more willing to work with less expensive hardware had Linux not been available? Would the same kind of fragmentation happened with a bigger userbase, or could the problems with fragmentation been even bigger? It's possible that the different flavors of BSD would have learned to work together better, to the point that they behaved more like Linux distributions behave today. It's a really fascinating hypothetical.
Posted Aug 31, 2021 6:12 UTC (Tue)
by ssmith32 (subscriber, #72404)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Aug 31, 2021 9:08 UTC (Tue)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (8 responses)
In particular, Monotone was _almsot_ ready: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotone_(software) - I was playing with it in early 2005 for personal projects, and it was awesome but buggy. Had the history turned out to be a bit different, we'd be using Monotone-based repos.
Posted Aug 31, 2021 9:50 UTC (Tue)
by anselm (subscriber, #2796)
[Link] (5 responses)
Or Mercurial.
The main reason Git took off outside the Linux kernel community is that ordinary programmers thought that if they just used Linus Torvalds's uber-hacker tool, they would themselves become uber-hackers like Linus Torvalds. Git was, in effect, the very expensive DSLR camera of the VCS world, which ordinary people buy because they believe that using a βprofessionalβ camera will make them better photographers. (Nowadays of course there is ancillary infrastructure like Github which is convenient and useful enough for people to put up with Git, and which doesn't exist for other VCSs.)
Posted Aug 31, 2021 12:11 UTC (Tue)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link]
I doubt this was a serious reason. Git performed much better for a while (I haven't compared them recently) and large influential (at that time) software projects including Ruby on Rails and later Android etc switched to Git. GitHub took off making adoption much more easier.
Posted Aug 31, 2021 13:21 UTC (Tue)
by kleptog (subscriber, #1183)
[Link]
I never understood the point of "immutable changesets". It feels like working with one hand tied behind your back.
Git is a "stupid content tracker" and thus made it possible to fit it to a workflow that worked for us, rather than what the tool wanted. For me git vs hg was like night and day. Also, the git index is IMO was a real innovation, that you could build commits piecewise.
Looks like hg is less strict these days, but once you've got everything to git the barrier to switch back is huge.
Posted Sep 1, 2021 16:45 UTC (Wed)
by jezuch (subscriber, #52988)
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Posted Sep 1, 2021 17:31 UTC (Wed)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link]
No, that was not the case.
Posted Sep 2, 2021 7:49 UTC (Thu)
by gioele (subscriber, #61675)
[Link]
My recollection of the events (I was in the bzr camp) was that people switched from hg/monotone/arch/bzr to Git because
1) Git was blazing faster (milliseconds vs seconds for `$VCS status` = it can be integrated in PS1)
Point 3 was especially important for me. Git rebase gave you the ability to polish your final results, instead of forcing you to show "how the sausage was made".
Posted Aug 31, 2021 14:46 UTC (Tue)
by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
[Link] (1 responses)
Also, wasn't Monotone breaking repository formats regularly? (IIRC, 2005-era Git works on new repositories except for the packref format and new hash algorithms, both of which can be ignored if one wants to use ancient software to clone modern repos (of course you'll probably then have issues with TLS algorithm negotiations, but that's everyone).
Posted Aug 31, 2021 16:50 UTC (Tue)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link]
There were some obvious optimizations that were missed, but the development of Monotone more-or-less died after git.
It also turned out that an SQL database for VCS data storage was not a good idea in general, because of all the overhead it brings compared to plain files.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 15:03 UTC (Wed)
by jpfrancois (subscriber, #65948)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 25, 2021 15:05 UTC (Wed)
by jpfrancois (subscriber, #65948)
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Posted Aug 25, 2021 15:53 UTC (Wed)
by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595)
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Posted Aug 25, 2021 16:35 UTC (Wed)
by jheiss (subscriber, #62556)
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Posted Aug 25, 2021 17:57 UTC (Wed)
by csigler (subscriber, #1224)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Aug 25, 2021 19:27 UTC (Wed)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link] (3 responses)
He had done that before, but those floppies contained Nethack, and that hooked my wife.
This stack was SLS, and it hooked me... Using a calculator to compute X11 modelines. Trying to use that weird US universities attempt at re-discovering productivity software -- I don't even remember the name. Seeing Sun's OpenWindow GUI coming up, going down the Breestraat in Leiden to get the relevant O'Reilly books. Studying ncurses, xlib, gtk... Finding Qt.
And, then, ending up about thirty years later being the maintainer of a free software productivity application, that's Krita, which is being used by millions of people.
Only not on Linux.
Roller-coaster ain't the right epitheth.
Posted Aug 25, 2021 21:21 UTC (Wed)
by noahm (subscriber, #40155)
[Link] (2 responses)
I remember giving that a try for a while on Slackware in the mid 90βs, but it didnβt really stick.
Posted Aug 26, 2021 7:06 UTC (Thu)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
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Posted Aug 26, 2021 9:16 UTC (Thu)
by nye (subscriber, #51576)
[Link]
Snark aside, it is genuinely heartening to see decades-old web pages still up and (mostly) working.
Posted Aug 26, 2021 1:38 UTC (Thu)
by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758)
[Link]
Loving it ....whatever little ...mundane ...ordianry...work I do with it day to day basis.
Plus ,running it on Desktop/Laptop for long without other OS'es presence ...sheer joy!
Posted Aug 26, 2021 9:19 UTC (Thu)
by edeloget (subscriber, #88392)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Aug 28, 2021 21:37 UTC (Sat)
by KJ7RRV (subscriber, #153595)
[Link]
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from nobody, to all big server of the big tech... that is a evolution!.
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Had the history turned out to be a bit different, we'd be using Monotone-based repos.
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2) Git was less opinionated (just use whichever branch workflow you want)
3) Git was more tolerant of errors (git rebase).
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Let's hope for a nice 50 years birthday :)
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"It was thirty years ago today,
Sergeant Torvalds taught the band to play..."
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