GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 17, 2021 19:35 UTC (Sat) by gfernandes (subscriber, #119910)
In reply to: GitHub is my copilot by dskoll
Parent article: GitHub is my copilot

I really doubt anyone would be able to claim a patent that would stand on a sort algorithm, or a circular buffer or something fundamentally utilitarian like that.

Co-pilot isn't going to write for you the next SAP competitor. Or the next DNA sequence breakthrough. It's going to help you build up your next Big Thing using fundamental lego blocks.

Unlikely said lego blocks can be patented.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 18, 2021 13:40 UTC (Sun) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (9 responses)

You mean like this patent?

My point is there's no way GitHub would indemnify users of Copilot code against patent infringement, because that's an expensive minefield. It would also encourage patent trolls... would you prefer to claim patent infringement damages against TinyStartup, or MIcrosoft?

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 6:09 UTC (Mon) by gfernandes (subscriber, #119910) [Link] (1 responses)

That fact that a patent is awarded is in no way an indication that it will stand. This has been proven many times before.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 16:23 UTC (Mon) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

Again, you are missing the point. Whether or not a patent will stand, there is no way Microsoft would even entertain the potential liability of offering indemnification against patent infringement for Copilot output.

Whether or not a patent is garbage is not relevant in Microsoft's calculation. The only relevant number is the potential financial harm Microsoft could suffer by offering indemnity.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 6:11 UTC (Mon) by gfernandes (subscriber, #119910) [Link] (4 responses)

And actually, claiming patent damages against Tiny Startup is basically bad business. You'll get some loose change.

And claiming patent damages against Microsoft is inviting the butcher to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Take your pick.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 8:55 UTC (Mon) by sandsmark (guest, #62172) [Link] (1 responses)

> And actually, claiming patent damages against Tiny Startup is basically bad business. You'll get some loose change.
> And claiming patent damages against Microsoft is inviting the butcher to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Our tiny startup received a patent troll mail a couple of years ago, which felt kind of validating for me at least. :-)

Unfortunately for them they sent apparently letters to Amazon as well (some overlap with Amazon's hardware stuff and ours), who swiftly crushed them in court and got the relevant patents invalidated.

So one free advice for patent trolls: don't send your "kind" snail mail letters to huge American companies before tiny Norwegian startups. You might get crushed before the letter reaches Norway.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 9:22 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

So one free advice for patent trolls: don't send your "kind" snail mail letters to huge American companies before tiny Norwegian startups. You might get crushed before the letter reaches Norway.

The usual strategy if you're a patent troll is to go after some small companies first, because they can't afford a protracted legal battle and are likely to cave or settle quickly. You won't get a lot of money out of them but these wins give you street cred to go after the bigger fish later.

Perhaps in your case the patent troll didn't realise that snail mail from the US (I presume) to Norway takes a while to arrive, and assumed the business with you would be done and dusted before they'd call out Amazon? Just a thought.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 21, 2021 14:15 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (1 responses)

Suing TinyStartup is hard work for pretty much no return. Suing Microsoft is like buying a lottery ticket. You're very, very likely to lose, but if you win, it'll be fantastic. Also, most patent infringement defendants end up settling, and MSFT's threshold for settling is higher than a smaller company's would be. Unless MSFT sees the patent or the troll as an existential threat, it'll probably make the correct business decision and just pay to make the problem go away.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 22, 2021 4:42 UTC (Thu) by rgmoore (✭ supporter ✭, #75) [Link]

It's not obvious that paying off patent trolls is the right business move for a big company like Microsoft. It would probably be the right move if there were only one patent troll out there, but if there are a lot of them- and there are- they'll wind up paying again and again. It might be cheaper in the long run to spend the money on lawyers and make an example of the first few who try it. Sending the message that suing your company will just result in massive legal bills and an invalidated patent should discourage other trolls who are thinking about suing you, resulting in less spending overall.

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 8:47 UTC (Mon) by sandsmark (guest, #62172) [Link] (1 responses)

> You mean like this patent?

I'm hungover and not in the mood to read patents, but something that most people seem to miss (and is fairly important with patents) is that the abstract is completely irrelevant.

What matters are the claims, and most importantly the independent claims (those that don't reference other claims). If you don't infringe on any part of an independent claim it does not apply, and it also invalidates all the dependent claims.

So while I haven't read that patent, usually when people point to what looks like absurd patents they tend to be useless (except for generating media hype and stock price for whomever got it).

GitHub is my copilot

Posted Jul 19, 2021 16:24 UTC (Mon) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]

I did read the patent. But again, even garbage patents can be expensive to fight and invalidate. I doubt Microsoft has the appetite for taking on that potential liability by offering indemnification against patent infringement for Copilot output.