What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 18, 2021 23:24 UTC (Thu) by benjamir (subscriber, #133607)
Parent article: What goes into default Debian?

Why did they argue what has to be onboard?
I always start from a (sadly, involuntarily non-free) minimal install and customize from there on via ansible anyway.
I doubt a "default" does fit even 80% of the bill (how about offering more convenient "tasks" via tasksel for those who are not into CM yet?). Beginners don't need netcat and the like from the start; that's wasteful.
Who's the target audience of "default"? Are those the packages the majority of pop contest users install? Does the data from popularity contest back the arguments mentioned in the article?
Would be nice to see Debian see an agreement based on neither guesswork, nor egos.

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 19, 2021 8:29 UTC (Fri) by dvdeug (guest, #10998) [Link]

How is netcat wasteful? It's a little more than 100KB installed. Raspberry Pi wants at least a 4GB SD card, and even the most basic PCs seem to have 100 GB drives. Not including a utility whose only cost is a few extra files and 100KB of hard drive space (that has no cron jobs and no setuid) is not a win for beginners or anyone.

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 20, 2021 5:20 UTC (Sat) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385) [Link] (4 responses)

> Beginners don't need netcat and the like from the start

If they are stuck at a shell prompt in the middle of the installer and they need help, netcat is a tool for exfiltrating dmesg to support personnel over the network, and for importing updated package or other system rescue software.

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 21, 2021 17:44 UTC (Sun) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (3 responses)

That's an argument for keeping it in the *installer*, but not necessarily the default *install*.

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 22, 2021 7:58 UTC (Mon) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385) [Link] (2 responses)

Fine, "if they are stuck at a shell prompt during or at some point after completing a default install..."

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Feb 22, 2021 13:52 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (1 responses)

That's what rescue Live CDs are for. Guiding someone at a shell prompt is not my idea of a fun day over the phone. At least with a Live CD, they can share their screen and maybe even let me SSH in to help with the problem.

What goes into default Debian?

Posted Mar 1, 2021 14:02 UTC (Mon) by zblaxell (subscriber, #26385) [Link]

That only works if they can attach a live USB to the host (I'm assuming you don't mean a literal CD, there haven't been CD drives in new hardware for a decade), and that the live USB doesn't suffer from the same problem that needed shell commands to fix or work around.

Sometimes you don't get to pick the target support environment.