LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 1, 2020 17:05 UTC (Thu) by dowdle (subscriber, #659)
Parent article: LVFS tames firmware updates

It is my understanding that LVFS doesn't does provide any updates on Legacy BIOS systems and requires UEFI. What's the deal with that?

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 1, 2020 18:34 UTC (Thu) by hughsient (subscriber, #52199) [Link] (4 responses)

Because there's no way of scheduling a legacy bios update. You can't even boot into a random update mode to run anything with CSM.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 1, 2020 21:29 UTC (Thu) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (3 responses)

I have little to no understanding about the constraints of Legacy BIOS... but I can tell you Dell Command Update (Microsoft Windows on most Dell end-user systems) on a Legacy BIOS system works just fine. I also use their DSU on Linux systems in Legacy BIOS mode. Various other vendors provide tools that work in both modes... Lenovo, HP, etc.

Granted, a single tool for Linux that works with a wide range of multi-vendor hardware doesn't really compare to a single vendor product. I realize there are most likely a wide range of differences between the various vendor Legacy BIOS setups... whereas UEFI is a tome of standards with a single reference implementation that most vendors only slightly customize? Yeah, I made that a question. :)

It would be helpful if fwupdmgr when run on a Legacy BIOS system would inform the user that they are simply wasting their time and that no matter how many times one reads the man page, it isn't going to help.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 2, 2020 9:20 UTC (Fri) by hughsient (subscriber, #52199) [Link] (2 responses)

> inform the user that they are simply wasting their time

We do, but you have to be running a very new fwupd version: https://github.com/fwupd/fwupd/blob/master/plugins/bios/f...

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 2, 2020 11:07 UTC (Fri) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (1 responses)

Are there instructions for converting a Red Hat / Fedora Legacy BIOS install to a UEFI boot install? Microsoft Windows has such a tool and I've used it on a few occasions. It works most of the time.

If there isn't a standard / reliable way to do it for Linux then, "Firmware can not be updated in legacy BIOS mode, switch to UEFI mode" practically means... change your system's boot method and re-install your OS... so you can update your firmware. I guess one could temporarily boot live media in UEFI mode and update from that... and switch back again.

I look forward to using fwupdmgr on the UEFI systems and think it is really a benefit to the entire Linux ecosystem. Thanks for all of the hard work.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 11, 2020 21:33 UTC (Sun) by HelloWorld (guest, #56129) [Link]

I have recently done that, and basically you have a 🐔 and🥚 problem. Installing a UEFI bootloader is only possible if you already booted via UEFI, and to do that, you need a UEFI bootloader. Commands like grub-install won't work in UEFI mode if you booted with the CSM. So you indeed have to boot from a live media and set it up from there.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 2, 2020 1:51 UTC (Fri) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link] (4 responses)

There are some docs available from Linux distros about non-fwupd ways to update firmware:

https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware/Updates
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BIOSUpdate
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/BIOS_Update
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Flashing_BIOS_from_L...

Probably at this point all updates for BIOS based systems have completely ended though, so even if it were possible to update BIOS systems with fwupd it would be pointless to implement it as there would be no updates available.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 2, 2020 9:18 UTC (Fri) by hughsient (subscriber, #52199) [Link]

> as there would be no updates available

Every single OEM I've talked to has zero interest in legacy BIOS or CSM-based update methods. Some are even going to be removing CSM as a user-option in the future.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 2, 2020 11:21 UTC (Fri) by dowdle (subscriber, #659) [Link] (2 responses)

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm mostly familiar with Dell systems... and on most of those with the latest gen-Intel processors they seem to have removed the option to switch to Legacy BIOS mode... but on all previous systems containing such an option (which is probably tens of millions+ of systems ranging from laptops to desktops to servers) Dell continues to offer BIOS updates. They are really UEFI with a BIOS Legacy mode... but hey, on their downloads pages you still pick "BIOS" from the drop-down menu to see the updates.

How many of those systems have users actually put into Legacy BIOS mode? I have no idea. Obviously anything with a 2TB or greater boot drive is in UEFI mode... and all pre-installed systems for the last few years have been using UEFI. I'd hazard a guess that the bulk of Legacy BIOS users are people who install their own OSes... especially anyone using Linux distros that don't offer a secure boot mode... and yes I realize you can still use UEFI without secure boot.

The point is though, Dell will be offering updates for their systems with a Legacy BIOS mode for as long as those systems are supported... which is probably a few more years.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 7, 2020 0:22 UTC (Wed) by pjones (subscriber, #31722) [Link]

They don't have an interest in implementing /APIs/ to do it in BIOS mode.

LVFS tames firmware updates

Posted Oct 7, 2020 1:20 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

I was referring to systems that never had UEFI, only BIOS. I personally have never owned a system capable of UEFI and all the systems I do own are way past the end of available BIOS updates and also predate the existence of fwupd.