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Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

October 5, 2020

This article was contributed by Marta Rybczyńska


Akademy

At Akademy 2020, the annual KDE conference that was held virtually this year, KDE developer Nate Graham delivered a talk entitled "Visions of the Future" (YouTube video) about the possible future of KDE on commercial products. Subtitled "Plasma sold on retail hardware — lots of it", the session concentrated on ways to make KDE applications (and the Plasma desktop) the default environment on hardware sold to the general public. The proposal includes creating an official KDE distribution with a hardware certification program and directly paying developers.

Graham started by giving some context; the ideas to be presented were a followup on the KDE accessibility and productivity goals from 2017. One of the objectives was to get Plasma and KDE applications ready to work on all kinds of hardware. Graham thinks that this has been achieved and it is the time to move to the next step: creating an official KDE operating system. He commented: "we have to, if we want to have direct relations with hardware vendors".

KDE already has an official distribution called neon, he said. Neon is, however, a "halfway product", because it showcases current KDE products on top of a distribution (Ubuntu 20.04 LTS) that may otherwise be outdated. On the other hand, it is good enough to be shipped on Slimbook laptops. A member of the audience requested an explanation of what has changed from the inception of neon, which was not called an official KDE OS at that time. Graham responded that there was a fear of harming the relationships between KDE and distributors, but agreed that a good way to go forward would be to call neon what it really is: the official KDE distribution.

Graham continued by presenting his list of requirements for such an OS. First, it needs the latest software, including a current Linux kernel, which is necessary for hardware enablement. The applications should be newer than those found in Ubuntu; they could be installed from Flatpaks or Snaps. The last requirement was to make it possible to rebase this system onto another distribution. With such features, this system "will be more awesome", he said.

Another member of the audience asked whether neon is a good reference platform, since there is not much development effort going into it right now. Graham said that neon is not perfect and it is up to KDE to create the official OS. It could be based on neon, but could also be something else like Fedora Silverblue or openSUSE, with a deeper partnership. The platform needs to be something that KDE controls, he emphasized, to get better relations with hardware vendors.

The next question related to whether a rolling distribution, like neon, is suitable for non-technical users. Graham answered that neon is, at the same time, both rolling (for the KDE software) and non-rolling (for the Ubuntu LTS part); this satisfies nobody. He imagines some kind of a user-facing switch to decide between a fully rolling distribution and one with packages that have been more fully tested, but said he has never seen an OS that works like that.

A bad idea?

Graham then asked: "Is this the worst idea anyone ever came up with?"; he elaborated that people may fear that an official KDE OS could destroy the ecosystem and alienate other distributions shipping KDE. He does not fear this outcome "because we already did it" with neon and "it worked". He thinks it would, instead, push the other distributors to improve their offerings. He also thinks that there is room for more than one solution, and that the end result will be beneficial. In the end, it would allow KDE to work with hardware vendors in a better way.

The next step, after the official distribution, is to create a hardware certification program, according to Graham. This would give hardware vendors a channel to introduce the changes they need. It also would bring more confidence to users, with "no more fear or guesswork"; institutions often rely on such programs to mitigate risk. He gave a number of ideas on how such certification could work. Part of it could be an official quality-assurance program, and part crowdsourced, like the Arch wiki "Hardware" pages. "We can basically do the same thing", he said, so that the KDE developers can learn what the hardware vendors need, and can adjust their work to make it more attractive for preinstallation.

Once the hardware certification program exists, the next logical step would be for KDE to partner with hardware vendors to create products — devices with KDE preinstalled. The project would want to contact companies selling Linux-enabled hardware now and convince them to enable KDE by default. This would mean, Graham said, "more hardware running Plasma" sold to consumers, so that more people would get it. That would make it easier for KDE to enter other markets, like embedded and automotive, where Qt (the library KDE software is based on) is already strong. This will be a virtuous cycle for everyone, he added, and pointed out that it is already happening with the Slimbook, Kubuntu Focus, and many other laptops using Plasma.

Graham then asked how this vision could be realized. His answer was that KDE needs to pay for development work. Currently there are important areas that do not have enough resources, including system administration and the web site. "We need more sustainable means", he added, and explained the problem: employed professionals are busy with their jobs and do not have the time to do the advanced work in KDE, even if they are capable of doing it. On the other hand, students have time, but do need guidance from professionals. Those professionals, however, do not have the time to give it.

Graham suggested that the funding for this work could come from KDE e.V. (the organization representing KDE when needed, especially in legal and financial matters). The association has a lot of money and encounters difficulties spending it all, which it is legally obliged to do, he explained. Currently KDE e.V. spends on everything except development. Starting to fund development is the next logical step, he said.

He then explained that this would not change the current situation, in which most KDE long-term contributors are paid anyway, but not by KDE. There is an ecosystem of companies around KDE that employs those developers. Some examples of projects led by paid developers are Krita (supported by the Krita Foundation), and Plasma (supported by Blue Systems, Enioka, and others).

With regard to choosing the projects to support, Graham proposed making the decisions democratically — by voting. Then it will be up to KDE e.V. to handle the hiring process, as it is already doing for contractors, he added. Ideally, the hiring would be done within the community. In addition, hiring may allow KDE e.V. to ask for bigger financial contributions from its members. Graham's recommendation would be to hire system administrators first, then developers for Plasma and basic applications like Dolphin, Gwenview, and Okular. This solution would create a career path for developers and reduce brain drain: KDE developers would move from being new to experienced, then to senior, and then work as mentors. This would mean, according to Graham, a more stable and professional community. In addition, it would give more assurance to hardware vendors.

In conclusion

Once again, he asked whether this idea might be a bad one. It could, some might worry, drain motivation from volunteer developers. His rapid response is that it would not, because "this is where we are". Some developers are already paid, and KDE e.V. is funding non-technical work as well. "There is nothing in free software that requires unpaid volunteerism; people have bills", he said, and suggested to try it out and see if it works. The community can expand the effort if it does, or retreat if it does not.

He finished by giving some examples of projects already having paid contributors, including five full-time contributors for Krita for about €20,000/month (that was corrected from the audience: the actual number of developers is higher, but was not revealed), Blender with 20 full-time contributors and a €100,000/month budget, and Linux Mint, with three paid developers for $12-14,000/month. He added that more solutions exist and asked the audience to think about what KDE could do with paid developers.

Graham wrapped up early to allow for questions. One audience member wanted to know what types of hardware he considered. The answer was "the sky is the limit". Laptops are an obvious choice, Graham said, but they also allow opening to other solutions. "You can have Plasma on your TV", he said, or have it on a smart voice assistant. If vendors would install KDE by default, that would make such systems widely available.

There was also a discussion about the distribution choice. One suggestion was to contribute to existing distributions instead of creating a separate KDE OS. Graham responded that this kind of contribution is happening already. "Not saying it is a bad model", he added, but, according to him, there is room for KDE to be a distributor too. It would add vibrancy to the ecosystem, allowing distributions to learn from KDE, like KDE learns from them.

Another audience member noted that hardware vendors are already building their own distributions, so why not talk to them? Graham responded that he has one example in mind; he tried to contact the company, but got no answer. He heard from rumors that it may be open to the idea, but that requires a personal connection inside the company. He asked the audience to contact him if someone had such a contact. He is "very interested in pitching hardware vendors", he added.

The final question concerned the details of how to pay developers, by suggesting per-feature or per-bug payments. Graham prefers hiring a person to work on a project rather than on specific features. The exact features to support can be discussed between KDE e.V. members. There might also be a prioritization system, with also main bugs that need to be fixed for a release. The KDE product manager can help, he added.


Index entries for this article
GuestArticlesRybczynska, Marta
ConferenceAkademy/2020


to post comments

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 5, 2020 19:59 UTC (Mon) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link] (1 responses)

One of the hard things for getting hardware certification going is having the right contacts in a business unit for the certification to mean anything. A lot of the computer makers will have multiple business units which compete against each other and even if you get XYZ laptop certified, you may find out that the XYZ division for laptops has no plans to use that certification because you got your hardware from the XYZ server group which is a 'completely different business'. There is also a lot of work to show each of these business groups how they can make enough money to justify getting it certified or shipping it. This takes a long time to get done.. a very long time where you may hear absolutely nothing from your potential partner for years.. and then find out 'oh we are shipping your OS next month, can you get us a preview ready by tomorrow?'

Finally hardware certification is a constant work so you had better charge enough for it. A laptop model may have many different chipsets in its 18 month lifetime depending on a lot of factors.. you end up needing to test each one and certify or decertify or come up with driver updates. A TV may have a chipset of the month as what is put on the board will be the cheapest set of chips which match needs and pass QA. This means you end up with a lot of tweaks to the realtime drivers for something you think is pretty 'stable'. There is also the fact that a lot of that development work will be done under NDA or need closed source items until proven otherwise.

Most of the work on this isn't going to be development costs.. it is going to be business production costs and accounting to show partners how they can use the product in their own systems. It is sending someone to a lot of different tradeshows with working prototypes and a pitch to get some VP interested in throwing it at a TV or a laptop (or a in-plane entertainment system).. and it is a lot of schmoozing with a timeline for products in the field of maybe 5 to 10 years out.

None of this is impossible, but it is one of those things where it tends to take a lot longer and a lot more schmoozing than expected.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 6, 2020 10:01 UTC (Tue) by GoodMirek (guest, #101902) [Link]

If KDE lacks resources already, it does not look likely they can successfully invest in such uncertain endeavour as maintaining its own distribution and convince anyone to pay enough for certify they hardware. I believe that future of KDE is more focus on Plasma desktop environment, not less. Maybe if they can work more closely with Suse commercial offering, then it can bring in money, if the need for money is the key issue now. For Suse, it would be important differentiator from Redhat family on desktop, as Redhat focus solely on Gnome now.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 6, 2020 15:42 UTC (Tue) by lisandropm (subscriber, #69317) [Link] (5 responses)

Properly maintaining Qt alone is a lot of effort. Maintaining a distro is... enormous. The best way forward, IMO, is to reach an agreement with $distro and build from there.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 6, 2020 19:54 UTC (Tue) by intgr (subscriber, #39733) [Link] (2 responses)

This undertaking sounds like a contender for "the Year of the Linux Desktop".

It's a long shot, but Linux really needs a success story in graphical consumer devices outside Android. I think that the potential is there, one moderately successful Linux-based device business can set the ball rolling for many more and from then on, there would be no stopping it.

The state of Linux desktop is that things mostly work, but it's not rare to experience subtle driver- and display stack bugs. Due to lack of resources, bug reports often languish, making it a bad time investment to even report such bugs. Whereas if these bugs were critical to a business that's selling devices, they would find the means to improve the situation.

One such success story is Valve's continued investment in improving the Linux 3D graphics stack and Steam experience on Linux. (Well, success story for Linux at least, not sure about Valve's business). Besides their direct involvement, I think they also play a significant role in AMD's recent renewed interest in upstreamed open source Linux drivers and probably other knock-on effects. The end result is that gaming on Linux went from a horrible experience a few years ago, to a viable gaming OS.

Valve's Steambox hardware, unfortunately has not panned out so far. Similar to so many other attempts, like Ubuntu for tablets, Openmoko and probably many more. Dell's preinstalled Linux offerings, System76, Purism etc aren't faliures by any means, but have not brought mainstream attention to the platform.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 8, 2020 8:55 UTC (Thu) by intgr (subscriber, #39733) [Link]

(Sorry, this was meant as a stand-alone comment, not a reply)

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 8, 2020 10:16 UTC (Thu) by nedrichards (subscriber, #23295) [Link]

Certainly interesting to compare with offerings such as Google Stadia which is "streaming games from a Linux box using Vulkan and AMD GPUs in someone else's data center". One would assume that AMDs interest in improving the software story for their hardware may also be related to that.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 13, 2020 11:57 UTC (Tue) by zuki (subscriber, #41808) [Link] (1 responses)

> Properly maintaining Qt alone is a lot of effort. Maintaining a distro is... enormous. The best way forward, IMO, is to reach an agreement with $distro and build from there.

My thoughts exactly. A distro is not just the graphical environment: many many things need to be shipped to the user (the kernel, libc, ssh, a thousand other little programs), and many things need to be maintained on the distro side (a wiki or some other help forum, a bug tracker, a package tracker, some build infra, some CI infra, distribution server and CDN or mirrors). So if you take the route of starting your own distribution seriously, you need to put an *enormous* amount of up-front work before anything is even shipped to users, and then a lot on-going maintenance just to keep things ticking.

There is the obvious alternative: create a spin as part of some $distro umbrella. Reuse as much as can be reused, lean on the existing build, test, qa, and distribution infrastructure. Use your time for the parts where you are the expert and can make the biggest difference.

I don't know too much about Ubuntu and Neon, but I can speak about Fedora: we would *love* to have more upstream KDE contributors participating in the KDE spin. KDE is not the primary desktop so it doesn't get as much attention as Gnome. Maintainers for KDE are stretched thin and kde-specific bugs are only slowly handled. But what is packaged in Fedora is generally just the latest version that upstream provides and there is no reason why it couldn't be used to showcase upstream work.

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 14, 2020 0:49 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

I'm sure Debian would also love upstream KDE folks to join the Qt/KDE packaging team. The team have already said they don't have the resources/time to package Qt 6:

https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2020-A...
https://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/2020/08/stepping-down-as-...

Getting KDE onto commercial hardware

Posted Oct 8, 2020 10:33 UTC (Thu) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link]

We're currently with nine people on the Krita team. Most of the money is coming from the Windows Store and Steam, which is what finances us. We're not getting rich, but we are having fun, and it looks like the income is stable despite the pandemic.

We're currently seeing 2,500,000 unique users per month on Windows -- which we know because Windows counts and tracks every executable you start, and a developer can see the statistics for their applications, even if users haven't bought the app in the Windows Store.


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