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The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 24, 2020 1:06 UTC (Fri) by Kamilion (guest, #42576)
Parent article: The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

I'd just like to point out, this has more broad reach than simply "accessibility" to disabled users -- as an example, I have a touchscreen tablet without a physical keyboard. Most of the Linux onscreen keyboards outside of android are a complete mess, and depend on stuff like ibus (which last I checked, was intended for internationalization; which also affects accessibility with regards to language support, like Asian input method editors -- as someone who speaks English and and lacks any formal disability, this is the sort of stuff I try to remove via the package manager to shrink my ISOs... (I run with TORAM=Yes, so any savings I can get in the squashfs contents means more free memory for the desktop an applications.)

And yet, if I try to do so, I lose important dependents; such as onscreen keyboard support.

Likewise, trying to remove printing support from ubuntu is a complete nightmare, I've had to compromise and leave only the bare minimum postscript support required for the print-to-PDF-file functionality of CUPS. Stuff like hplip are great, but monster-sized, as linux-firmware has also become... Wish someone would add linux-server-firmware to split off all the "enterprise 10Gbit Smart NIC" firmware images away from "Laptop and Desktop Wifi"... But that would make the linux-firmware github repo more of a pain to manage.


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The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 24, 2020 8:26 UTC (Fri) by smcv (subscriber, #53363) [Link]

If your goal is removing functionality to save space, then you're going to have to make some difficult decisions where you either lose some functionality that you want, or miss out on some space savings. There's really no way around that, unless you are willing to fork components to make different design trade-offs and maintain them yourself (which you can do, this is Free Software after all, but it doesn't really scale). If the OSKs that are available to you interface to applications via ibus rather than a11y, then yes, you do need to keep ibus (not necessarily the actual Asian input method editors, but at least the framework itself).

OSKs using ibus might well be a result of the fact that few people understand AT-SPI, and those who do either associate it with more specialized assistive technologies (the Stephen Hawking use-case mentioned in the article), or have looked into its security properties and are scared of its attack surface, or both. For what it's worth, GNOME's "Caribou" OSK uses AT-SPI rather than ibus, so both ways seem to be possible.

More generally, there are broadly two ways the overall system can go to be more useful to you: it can get more integrated and tightly-coupled, or it can get more modular and loosely-coupled. Either of those might be good or bad for your goal, and it isn't obvious which. Choosing the right level of modularity is more art than science, and the right answer will be different for different parts of the system.

If the system gets more modular and loosely-coupled, you are more likely to be able to remove the components you don't need, while leaving the components that you do need, and giving other users in the same situation the ability to remove the components that *they* don't need (not necessarily the same components you remove). However, the price of a modular and loosely-coupled system is that you will not be able to get rid of the abstraction layer that links the components together (together with whatever workarounds and glue code are necessary to make them actually work), which might itself be of a significant size; and the other things you want from your system (features, bug fixes and security) will often advance more slowly, because changes require changing things on both sides of the abstraction layer boundary, and perhaps also the abstraction layer itself.

If the system gets more integrated and tightly-coupled (as in the work described in this article), then you will not be able to remove the components you don't need, because they're integrated into the components you do need. However, if they're more likely to actually work well enough that you can rely on them, and they don't have an abstraction layer getting in the way, that might well be a net improvement from your point of view.

The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 24, 2020 22:03 UTC (Fri) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

> h someone would add linux-server-firmware to split off all the "enterprise 10Gbit Smart NIC" firmware images away from "Laptop and Desktop Wifi"...

You have to look out there, though. I think you might be dating yourself a bit. 25GbE (let alone 100) is still unequivocally "enterprise", but my desktop here has a 10GbE Intel X540-AT2 in it. It cost a bit over a hundred quid, and the switch it's attached to was only a bit more expensive. Yes, it didn't come attached to the motherboard by default, but 10GbE is definitely not "crazy expensive enterprise only" any more: it's perfectly practical if you just want your desktop's access to your home RAID array to be as fast as it is on the server itself. (Though this particular NIC, driven by ixgbe, doesn't need any firmware at all.)

... hm, a lot of the things that *do* need firmware are a bit on the pricey side, I'll admit. £590 for a 10GbE NIC? Uh no thanks, Myricom. But not all: Agilio CX cards are only about twice as expensive as the thing in my desktop. (Still not sure why it's worth paying twice as much as Intel charge, mind you.)

The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 26, 2020 5:26 UTC (Sun) by plugwash (subscriber, #29694) [Link] (1 responses)

Maybe splitting Ethernet from Wi-Fi would make sense? In my experiance most desktop/laptop Ethernet adapters don't require softloaded firmware while most desktop/laptop wifi does.

The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 26, 2020 14:26 UTC (Sun) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

Oh definitely. wifi in general is many times more complex than Ethernet.

The archaeology of GNOME accessibility

Posted Jul 28, 2020 12:21 UTC (Tue) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

> Wish someone would add linux-server-firmware to split off all the "enterprise 10Gbit Smart NIC" firmware images away from "Laptop and Desktop Wifi"... But that would make the linux-firmware github repo more of a pain to manage.

Firmware files can at least be pared down by mere mortals. Graphics drivers are in dire need of being separated into current, legacy and abandoned hardware support. Every other class of hardware in the kernel seems to get this right; Intel's 1MB-and-growing blob of mostly unused code is by far the worst offender.


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