Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Posted Dec 2, 2019 10:11 UTC (Mon) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454)In reply to: Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc by rahulsundaram
Parent article: Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
So either those devs work with free software distributions to provide this stability, or the market for their app segment will be captured by non-free-software third parties, that perform this distribution role.
This is happening right now with Cloudera, OpenShift, etc.
The end result of not working with distributions, and producing things end users can not use with any level of security, is not users adopting the dev model, it’s users giving up on distributions *and* upstream binaries, and switching to proprietarized intermediated product sources.
And, practically, that also means devs having to follow the whims of the proprietary intermediaries if they want any influence on how their code is actually used. Do you really think they will love better? Even if the proprietary intermediaries provide them with free-as-beer SDKs?
Posted Dec 2, 2019 11:05 UTC (Mon)
by NAR (subscriber, #1313)
[Link] (2 responses)
Actually providing stability is a reason to bypass distributions. It's more than annoying when installing/upgrading an unrelated application upgrades a common dependency too with an incompatible new version...
Posted Dec 3, 2019 10:56 UTC (Tue)
by roblucid (guest, #48964)
[Link]
Library updates should support the API, incompatible API changes require a new package, which may provide a legacy API or support co-existence with an installation of the old library by changing filenames or directories. Shared libraries actually do permit applications choosing different implementations if required.
Rather than 'just in case' silos, fix the bugs and write competent software. Bad security fixes breaking stuff are bugs, regressions which ought be fixed and the sysadmin is the only one who can decide the right mitigation in the deployment ..
The ability to secretly rely on vulnerabilities IS NOT a benefit to the end user
Posted Dec 3, 2019 13:52 UTC (Tue)
by farnz (subscriber, #17727)
[Link]
To expand on that, there are three groups involved here, not two:
Distributions that survive end up being a compromise between the three. They update fast enough to keep developers happy; they're good enough at stopping things that you don't want to have happen to keep operations happy; they make the computer do enough useful things that users are happy. But note that distributions are not essential in this set - they just happen to be one form of compromise between the three groups that has historically worked out well enough to survive. Containers are another - especially combined with CI - where you build a complete FS image of the "application" and run it; you regularly update that image, and all is good.
Basically, things go wrong when the desires of the three groups are unbalanced - if a distribution becomes "this is what operations want", then users and developers leave it to ossify; if a distribution becomes "this is what users want", it loses developers and operations; if it becomes "this is what developers want", it loses users and operations. And as every real individual is a combination of users, developers and operations to various degrees, the result of such ossification is a gradual loss of people to work on the distribution.
As soon as distributions see themselves as "in opposition" to developers (or operations, or users), they're at risk - this is about finding a balance between developers' love of using the best technologies they know about, and operations' love of not bringing in tech for the sake of it that results in users getting value from the distribution.
Posted Dec 2, 2019 14:48 UTC (Mon)
by walters (subscriber, #7396)
[Link] (2 responses)
I know the meaning of the individual words in your message, but the way you've combined them isn't making much sense to me... ("proprietarized intermediated product sources"? Really?)
Posted Dec 4, 2019 8:57 UTC (Wed)
by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454)
[Link] (1 responses)
The difference between effective open sourcing and over the wall code dumping others can not use is the existence of things like Oracle Linux.
I haven’t seen the equivalent OpenShift-side but I may not have looked hard enough.
Posted Dec 4, 2019 9:47 UTC (Wed)
by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118)
[Link]
I think devs are so drunk on their new tooling ability to bypass free software distributions, they forget users do require a level of stability.
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
Soller: Real hardware breakthroughs, and focusing on rustc
In practice, CentOS built images once and did not provide any updates for them.