Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 7, 2019 19:12 UTC (Mon) by tbrownaw (guest, #45457)
In reply to: Richard Stallman and the GNU project by smurf
Parent article: Richard Stallman and the GNU project

> However. There's people out there whose concept of that finicky word "freedom" has nuances which RMS obviously does not stand for, and / or who have fallen victim of people disregarding those nuances – either willfully or, as RMS appears to have done, by Not Thinking. They would also like to feel welcome in the GNU Project – but simply cannot.

> Many of these people, me among them, feel quite un-respected (and obviously un-represented) when you disregard our opinion on that matter. Examples on the ways RMS has done that abound and do not need being repeated, even if he's been somewhat benign compared to certain other perpetrators which I will not name.

So, there exist people who like the idea of "freedom", but do not like what RMS / FSF / GNU advocate for (and happen to use the word "freedom" for).

And these people want to be part of the GNU project, despite not agreeing with what it fundamentally advocates for.

And apparently, you think that the proper answer to this is that the GNU project should abandon its goals in order to be maximally inclusive of people who do not agree with it.

I don't think it quite works that way.

> There's a reason we're having #MeToo these days. A large part of that reason is the #WhatMeWorry attitude by people like RMS, who are quite obviously not interested in "our" feeling welcome, or indeed safe.

And, I *really* don't think that a disagreement over fundamental goals is equivalent to personal abuse of power differentials as you seem to be implying it is. Unless you're suddenly talking about something other than definitions of "freedom" and what to advocate for?

Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 7, 2019 20:51 UTC (Mon) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (3 responses)

What makes you think the folks, who are part of GNU, don't want the same goals as it is already chartered with? Is Ballmer clamoring to join here all of a sudden? Who has been asking for a relaxation of any of GNU's (or FSF's for that matter) goals here?

At some point, GNU and FSF were going to be Stallman-less anyways since that's how life works. What would have been different in that case? Is it better for them to shut down without an absolutist like Stallman to lead? What is different now? I don't see how neither exisiting anymore would improve things with respect to software freedom.

Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 7, 2019 22:27 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (2 responses)

At some point, GNU and FSF were going to be Stallman-less anyways since that's how life works.

Richard should have been planning for it anyway. He is, after all, retirement age, and death can strike fast (and the probability-per-year gets fairly significant at his age, alas). Whether he was or not I have no idea...

Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 8, 2019 8:29 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> and the probability-per-year gets fairly significant at his age, alas

Not as significant as you think.

At what age, does the probability of seeing your next birthday drop below half (ie, 50% mortality)? The answer is a lot higher than most people would think - well over half of centenarians live to 101.

Cheers,
Wol

Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 18, 2019 8:24 UTC (Fri) by hippy (subscriber, #1488) [Link]

Over 85 apparently...

http://www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html

Richard Stallman and the GNU project

Posted Oct 8, 2019 5:35 UTC (Tue) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

> And, I *really* don't think that a disagreement over fundamental goals is equivalent to personal abuse of power differentials as you seem to be implying it is.

No of course it is not. My point is that people who actually agree on fundamental goals are driven away by behavior that exploits, or condones, abuse of power differential. We can discount reactions along the lines of "isn't the GNU project led by that guy who gives those creepy cards to women…? You *seriously* want me to join up with THOSE people??" all day … or we can admit that comments like these are a symptom a problem that's not worth putting up with, to state it bluntly.