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Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 0:51 UTC (Wed) by landley (guest, #6789)
In reply to: Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF by SEJeff
Parent article: Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

No, he's a self-promoting con artist who pushed the _phrase_ free software.

Grace Hopper wrote the first compiler in 1952, Unix was created in 1969, but the Berne convention didn't extend copyright to cover source code until about 1977, and _binaries_ were considered "just a number" and uncopyrightable until the Apple vs Franklin legal decision in 1983. before that there was no common word for "free software" because there was no NON-FREE software. It hadn't been invented yet. There were decades of "freeware" before retail software sales were even legally possible. (People like Bill Gates unhappy with that reality, ala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists did contracts with hardware manufacturers to bundle their software with hardware sales, because making copies simply wasn't illegal. Heck, there's an mp3 of a 1980 audio interview with bill gates on http://landley.net/history/mirror/ where he whines about testifying before congress and not being able to change the law.)

By the time Stallman announced he was cloning Unix again, the _first_ clone of Unix (Coherent from the Mark Williams company; new kernel, command line tools, libc, and compiler, took about 3 years to create) had been out for 3 years. Stallman's project wasn't the only Unix clone started in response to Apple vs Franklin, Minix started at the same time and shipped its first release in 1986 (again, ~3 years to create) because professor Andrew Tanenbaum couldn't use the Lyons book to teach his courses anymore, so he wrote his own clone as a teaching tool. Linus Torvalds then wrote Linux under Minix 5 years later, and announced its existence on comp.os.minix, and basically swallowed the Minix development community whole to bootstrap Linux. (Tanenbaum published the source code but didn't take patches upstream because he wanted a teaching tool, not a real-world usable system. Linus _did_ take patches, and the devs had years of backlog they were happy to port over, that's why Linux surged forward so fast.)

Meanwhile BSD started distributing open source code in the late 70's and in 1979 got the contract to replace all the internet routers (see https://www.salon.com/2000/05/16/chapter_2_part_one/), and in 1983 they responded to Apple vs Franklin by cleaning the legacy AT&T code out of their Unix fork, but had to survive a lawsuit from AT&T to establish their right to distribute and it took them years to fight that off (https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/opensources/book/kirkmck...) .

Heck, gcc only took off because Sun VP Ed Zander "unbundled" the compiler from the base OS during the SunOS->Solaris switch and sold it seperately, and the solaris users got mad about that and _refused_ to pay extra for what HAD been part of the base OS before, so they found a freely downloadable m68k compiler (it was 1987) that was _crap_ but almost sort of worked worked, and flooded it with patches to fix everything. (Remember Fabrice Bellard got tinycc to build the Linux kernel in 3 years from a standing start (https://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html), and coherent and minix had their own compilers written from scratch in the same amount of time. The only reason Linus didn't use the minix compiler the same way he used the minix filesystem is it targeted 16 bit output like the rest of minix (since the PDP-11 the Lyons book had targeted was 16 bit), by 1990 moore's law had made >640k ram cheap enough the world had gone 32 bit.)

Stallman is great at blowing his own horn, but he is not REMOTELY as important to the history of Linux has he makes himself out to be. In 1998 when Netscape released its source and pointed to The Cathedral and the bazaar as the reason why (which was a 1997 Usenix paper explaining why Linux's "bazaar" development model was superior to the FSF's copyright assignment "cathedral"; yes it was explicitly comparing THOSE TWO development models and said so in the paper), the "anything but microsoft" crowd that Netscape had collected together into Java development poured into Linux instead, famously growing the Linux community 212% in one year. That TRIPLED the size of the community, and the Linux devs had their hands full bringing them up to speed technically and didn't have time to explain history to them.

Stallman saw his chance and started telling the ignorant newbies about the history of the GNU project, which was not and never WAS the history of Linux, but he lied and said it was. Heck, he had a page on his website basically saying "Linux is just a fad, stop talking about it, my vaporware project I announced 15 years ago will be way better" (https://web.archive.org/web/19980126185426/http://www.gnu...).

Nobody ever had to "defend ken thompson's legacy", or defend Linus's or Larry Wall's or anybody else who actually did stuff. But stallman was CONSTANTLY defending "his" legacy because it WASN'T TRUE. It was revisionist history. He wasn't "forgotten", he was _irrelevant_.

He went around the country giving speeches about how great he was, but the founding of the GNU project was a conservative reactionary movement attempting to recapture a glorious past. When copyright law changed out from under the industry he went "no, change bad, I want to roll back the clock to the 1970's by cloning existing software projects". The fact the change _was_ bad (and burned itself out with proprietary software collapsing into a single monopoly and leaving waves of abandonware) doesn't make him a visionary, and every year that's passed since 1983 that "vision" has been a poorer match with modern reality.


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Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 1:04 UTC (Wed) by mgb (guest, #3226) [Link] (13 responses)

> before [1983] there was no common word for "free software" because there was no NON-FREE software

(1) You seem to be confusing freedom - Stallman's focus - with zero cost.

(2) Even so, why were businesses paying large sums of money for software that you imagine was free?

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 1:47 UTC (Wed) by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523) [Link]

> (2) Even so, why were businesses paying large sums of money for software that you imagine was free?
They were not.

At that time there were basically no pure software products. Almost everything was sold as hardware+software combinations, or as development services to customize software for a particular use-case.

This even allowed IBM's competitors run OS/360 on their own hardware without IBM's licenses.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 3:17 UTC (Wed) by NYKevin (subscriber, #129325) [Link] (11 responses)

> (1) You seem to be confusing freedom - Stallman's focus - with zero cost.

No, the parent comment most certainly is not doing that. It is correctly noting that , before 1983, no software was covered by copyright. Therefore, anyone coming into contact with the software could exercise all four freedoms (and do plenty of other stuff besides), long before Stallman even wrote them down.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 6:17 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (8 responses)

Maybe OT, but Stallman famously started his free software ideology when confronted with a proprietary printer driver that he couldn't use. IMO he started the wrong crusade. It should have been for open *standards* not open source. Having source code available is a help in writing drivers, document readers, etc for new devices/systems... but having documented standards is much more important. Source code is not always easily readable or portable.

As pointed out in this subthread, many software projects had source code available, gave freedom to tinker, etc before and after GNU (notably, BSD, X, TeX -- all of which were co-opted by GNU as part of the "GNU OS" though they are unrelated projects).

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 9:42 UTC (Wed) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (7 responses)

If the source is open you can just read that, no need for an open standard.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 12:51 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (5 responses)

The nice thing about an open standard is that it transcends individual implementations. Without a standard, it is difficult to tell mandated behaviour from implementation quirks, and that makes it very difficult to come up with an alternative implementation of something even if you have access to its source code (which you may not be able to use directly because of copyright restrictions).

We like free/open-source implementations of open standards.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 14:22 UTC (Wed) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (4 responses)

> which you may not be able to use directly because of copyright restrictions

That doesn't classify as open source, let alone being libre software. So yeah a good license would solve the issue.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 15:08 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (3 responses)

That doesn't classify as open source, let alone being libre software.

Not necessarily. The code you want to be compatible with might be under that most libre of licences, the GPL, but you may not be in a position where you are allowed to use GPL code in your own software (for example, you might be an Android application programmer at Google).

In that case the free licence doesn't help you a lot; you can analyse the GPL code (or have the team in the office next door analyse the GPL code if you don't want to be tainted by looking at it yourself), but without an independent standard that defines what the code is supposed to do, you still can't tell the mandated behaviour from the implementation quirks.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 15:32 UTC (Wed) by LtWorf (subscriber, #124958) [Link] (2 responses)

Again, having whatever code you are working on being free software solves the issue.

The issue just exists because of non-free software.

Free software=no issue.

How is it wrong to focus on free software?

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 15:40 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

I think there are reading comprehension issues here.

As observed by GP

  • your reference code may be free software but
  • your employer or license conflicts or your own philosophy may not allow you to use it directly, so you have to read the thing and distinguish quirks vs specifications
To which I would add
  • it could be a horrendous task anyway and leave you open to all sorts of lawsuits (eg, imagine reimplementing ZFS under GPL using the GPL-incompatible source code as your reference without copying from it).
  • an open specification (like for PostScript and PDF) demonstrably solves problems.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 15:55 UTC (Wed) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

How is it wrong to focus on free software?

That's beside the point.

Your original contention was that “open standards are not needed when the code is open”. You have repeatedly failed to address the objection that without a specification of what the code is supposed to do (e.g., a – hopefully open – standard) it is impossible to distinguish wanted behaviour from unintended implementation quirks. This becomes particularly relevant in situations where it isn't possible to use the freely available code directly – either because of the copyright issues I have outlined earlier, or, for example, because the freely available code is written in the XYZ programming language but you want an implementation of the same functionality on a system for which that programming language is not available. In that case an (open) standard that specifies the desired functionality directly is arguably more helpful than a free implementation that embellishes it with quirks (even though it may be useful to have the free implementation around for reference).

As I said, free/open-source software is nice but free/open-source software that implements an open standard is nicer. And having an open standard increases the likelihood that free/open-source software will be written that implements that standard, compared to having to replicate all the quirks of some proprietary piece of software (OOXML notwithstanding), so open standards are a good thing even if the corresponding free/open-source software doesn't (yet) exist.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 14:22 UTC (Wed) by ledow (guest, #11753) [Link]

Tell that to the people who worked with OpenXML.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 18, 2019 7:09 UTC (Wed) by jwilk (subscriber, #63328) [Link]

You couldn't necessarily exercise freedoms 1 (study how the program works) and 3 (distribute copies of your modified versions). "Access to the source code is a precondition for this."

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 20, 2019 16:25 UTC (Fri) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> It is correctly noting that , before 1983, no software was covered by copyright.

No software IN AMERICA! It was always covered by Berne, right from the start.

Which was part of the problem with Unix in that AT&T famously removed copyright messages, including a lot from two Universities - University College London, and one in Australia who's name escapes me. Trying to sell Unix in the "Rest Of the World" when it contained a load of code with illegally removed copyright notices could have been, well, awkward to say the least ...

Cheers,
Wol

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 19, 2019 13:38 UTC (Thu) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

No, he's a self-promoting con artist who pushed the _phrase_ free software.
Free social nuance tuition: if you want people to think you unbiased, don't start that way. (My personal impression is that if RMS personally invented a cure for death, you'd find a way to damn him for it.)
Heck, he had a page on his website basically saying "Linux is just a fad, stop talking about it, my vaporware project I announced 15 years ago will be way better"
And now we look at the page you cite. I guess you didn't actually read it, or expected us not to, since it's nothing like you claim. He talks about the GNU project, which by this point was a really very substantial collection of critical toolchain components and other pieces which, as he notes on the very page you link to, constitutes more or less all of the stuff a Unix system needs to be a useful development platform other than the GUI and the kernel. (Sure, he didn't write all of that himself, but he also didn't claim to have done so.)

As far as I can tell, everything he says on that page is true. Some of it is overoptimistic (because no programmers have ever been guilty of that before), but he is careful to give BSD its due as well rather than just pushing his own stuff. Your damning all this as vapourware con artistry reflects poorly on you, not on him. If you're that biased in reading a simple, easy-to-read webpage, how can we trust anything else you say?

It is also instructive to ask why you dug around on the Internet Archive rather than linking to the latest version of that page, still up on the GNU site. Could it possibly be because RMS responded to past criticisms by adding more nuance to the page, but you wanted to keep damning him for a decades-older version that he couldn't modify without access to a time machine? The appearance of selective quotation and bias here is overwhelming, and it's not RMS who comes across as biased.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 21, 2019 0:01 UTC (Sat) by rickmoen (subscriber, #6943) [Link] (1 responses)

Rob, a note on a small point in your initial paragraph: Implementation of the Berne Convention in the USA kicked in starting March 1, 1989, by the terms of the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, so you're off by a decade about when Berne kicked in.

However, in addition, Berne wasn't the beginning of copyright encumbrance to source code. I'm pretty sure it was considered a copyrightable 'literary work' persuant to 17 U.S.C. § 102, way back to the days of ur-programming, though I'd have to dig deep to find the caselaw. Berne merely changed the mechanism of notice/registration, duration, and a number of other details to comply with international practice, but didn't change what works are covered.

Richard Stallman resigns from the FSF

Posted Sep 21, 2019 0:42 UTC (Sat) by pizza (subscriber, #46) [Link]

The "Computer Software Copyright Act of 1980" explicitly added "computer programs" to the list of copyrightable stuff in 17 U.S.C. § 102 as well as § 117 that stated it was not infringement to make a temporary copy of the program in RAM so it could be executed..

Granted caselaw may have established it as copyrightable before that.


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