Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 12, 2019 22:53 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
In reply to: Xfce 4.14 released by clugstj
Parent article: Xfce 4.14 released

> Sorry, but I'm a user of software and I do care.

I did say usually. So you are an atypical user. Why would a regular user care about version numbers of a fast moving software exactly?

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 13, 2019 7:07 UTC (Tue) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link] (12 responses)

Regular users dislike fast-moving software unless the fast movement is specifically adding features they're eagerly anticipating. When building a cheaper competitor, or re-imagining a business category in the early stages, or building a product category that's never existed before, the features and the pace are the winners. In most other situations, fast pace is generally unwanted.

They dislike very large meaningless numbers too, but beyond a certain level of change they tune them out entirely.

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 13, 2019 12:48 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (11 responses)

What about things like browsers?

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 13, 2019 20:13 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (10 responses)

Exactly the same! Users do not like fast-paced change, PERIOD!

Browsers evolve fast, true. Mostly because of serious bugs that let people steal the contents of your bank account in various inventive ways.

Most improvements are accepted with a resigned sigh of "oh no not again". If I could, my word-processor would be stuck on WordPerfect v8. Browsers are a pain in the arse, likewise email readers. Any upgrade to Windows triggers a support nightmare.

BY DEFINITION, for a user, the computer is a TOOL. And if you keep on having to relearn how your tool works every few months, that is a ginormous waste of time. And if you are elderly, or sick, or of average/below-average intelligence (that's probably 60-70% of all people), relearning your tools is A PROBLEM.

Ever noticed how it's always the young people who are bleeding edge adopters, and the oldies tend to stick with what they know until they are *forced* to upgrade?

Cheers,
Wol

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 1:21 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (5 responses)

> Exactly the same! Users do not like fast-paced change, PERIOD!

Oh that is easy to disprove. Some users absolutely love faster past changes (think say Arch or Rawhide users) and more importantly, whether are not one wants a more aggressive or conservative release has not much to do with version numbers and more to do with things like how disruptive it is. Browsers I think have done a reasonable job of reasonable job of striking a good balance ex: binary delta updates on the background, smaller incremental feature set etc. Most users have no idea what the version number is and don't care

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 7:01 UTC (Wed) by joib (subscriber, #8541) [Link]

Sort of interesting that the OSS projects with the most massive and complex code bases and high pace of development (Linux kernel and web browsers) have converged on a roughly 3 month release schedule (with occasional LTS releases).

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 7:25 UTC (Wed) by jrigg (guest, #30848) [Link] (1 responses)

> Oh that is easy to disprove.

Maybe for "some" users, but I think not for the majority. Continually having to relearn the use of tools is a massive waste of time.

Browsers are a case in point. Constant changes in web browsers drive corresponding changes in web development fads. Web sites break regularly every few months, necessitating a new browser (and learning a new configuration procedure) every time. Banking web sites are among the worst offenders here.

Most users I know would be happy with just security patches and bug fixes. Those who enjoy playing with the latest software features are enthusiasts and are not typical of the majority.

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 17, 2019 7:47 UTC (Sat) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link]

> Continually having to relearn the use of tools is a massive waste of time.

That is why most software (on mobile phones) has much faster release cycles, bringing changes incrementally and thus giving users only a few changes at a time. That makes it easier to get used to them and actually benefit from and like the improvements. Indeed, normal users don’t like to have to explore a whole new world of changes... but a few concrete ones is ok. In general, if a release has more that a handful of changes users are overwhelmed so slow release cycles are a bad idea.

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 16:32 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> Oh that is easy to disprove. Some users absolutely love faster past changes (think say Arch or Rawhide users)

I don't know as I would call those "users". Are they *using* their computer, or *playing* with it. I run gentoo - I have to rebuild it regularly, I *play* with it. There's absolutely NO WAY I would want it on my mum's computer (who *uses* her computer) - the support nightmare would be intense.

For people who *use* their computer, rather than *play* with their computer, change is to be avoided as much as possible (and as someone who provides luser support to the family, I try to change *their* systems as little as possible!!!).

Cheers,
Wol

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 16, 2019 0:25 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

>I don't know as I would call those "users".

That falls into the No true scotsman fallacy. Of course they are users. They might not be the majority but Linux desktop users aren't the majority either. We shouldn't just discount users who have a different preference. They often provide a valuable service by being leading edge adopters and help conservative users get more mature software

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 7:06 UTC (Wed) by joib (subscriber, #8541) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm sure there are those Linux desktop users that do something like running CentOS and skipping every other release (e.g. 4->6->8), but AFAICT those are a tiny minority. Seems most people want new stuff at a somewhat faster clip.

Outside the FOSS world, seems macOS users are mostly happy with a yearly release cycle. And hasn't MS switched to doing some incremental updates to Windows 10 every few months or so?

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 16:36 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> Outside the FOSS world, seems macOS users are mostly happy with a yearly release cycle. And hasn't MS switched to doing some incremental updates to Windows 10 every few months or so?

Is that a *push* update? Do users *want* them, or are they *scared into* them?

My systems still run XP in a virtual box, although I have - finally - pretty much weaned my wife onto Windows 10. 7 never got off the ground because they changed things and *broke* the way things worked happily in XP - fortunately 10 now behaves much better as a superset of XP than as a "rewrite and change everything" set.

Cheers,
Wol

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 14, 2019 15:06 UTC (Wed) by gb (subscriber, #58328) [Link] (1 responses)

> Browsers evolve fast, true

Really? I can not recall any change which matter for me in browsers in last 5 years. I can recall some performance improvement in Firefox last year may be. So are they evolving, really?

Xfce 4.14 released

Posted Aug 20, 2019 16:01 UTC (Tue) by gfernandes (subscriber, #119910) [Link]

Undoubtedly, they are!

Try playing Netflix on a Firefox of 5 years vintage. Or try running a Java applet in the latest incarnation.