|
|
Subscribe / Log in / New account

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) and GitHub have announced [ASF, GitHub] that all ASF projects using Git have moved to GitHub and the ASF Git service has been decommissioned. (Thanks to Paul Wise)

Update: ASF has another announcement with more details. An older Git service was decommissioned, but ASF projects are still available on https://gitbox.apache.org/. "As stated above, our GitHub integration is an augmentation of our existing service. It is available to all committers on git-based projects to make use of, should they so wish. All new git repositories will automatically be available on both GitHub and Gitbox." (Thanks to Lars Francke)


to post comments

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 29, 2019 20:54 UTC (Mon) by juliank (guest, #45896) [Link] (17 responses)

ugh. let's all head into proprietary silos, what could possibly go wrong?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 29, 2019 21:58 UTC (Mon) by mageta (subscriber, #89696) [Link] (16 responses)

Its still git. I agree that its a bit disappointing that everybody moves into this proprietary service, but at least the data and core is still open and federated.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 29, 2019 22:52 UTC (Mon) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (9 responses)

> Its still git. I agree that its a bit disappointing that everybody moves into this proprietary service, but at least the data and core is still open and federated.

A free and open source foundation should insist on using free and open source software for its own infrastructure. There are good widely used alternatives to Github in that regard.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:59 UTC (Tue) by nilsmeyer (guest, #122604) [Link] (8 responses)

> A free and open source foundation should insist on using free and open source software for its own infrastructure. There are good widely used alternatives to Github in that regard.

Such as?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 12:41 UTC (Tue) by h2g2bob (subscriber, #130451) [Link] (3 responses)

The code for GitLab is open-source.

They offer their own cloud service too, of course, but it's better than totally-closed github.

Diversity of providers is also a good thing.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 9:55 UTC (Wed) by Otus (subscriber, #67685) [Link] (1 responses)

> Diversity of providers is also a good thing.

Not if you are after network effects. At least for me the process of reporting a bug goes like:

Can I even figure out where to report them?

Can I report issues without registering a new account somewhere?

Many times already the first fails and unless it's important to me I give up quickly if either is a no. And if I can't report the issue, them I almost certainly won't look at the code in case it's something I could contribute a fix for.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 3, 2019 16:12 UTC (Fri) by juliank (guest, #45896) [Link]

Adding a 'Login with GitHub' button usually solves that problem.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 3, 2019 12:14 UTC (Fri) by zoobab (guest, #9945) [Link]

"Gitlab is open source"

Yes and no. It is MIT licensed, with a proprietary Enterprise version. And gitlab.com is running the proprietary version, so if you use gitlab.com, you cannot be sure you will have the same functionalities if you want to run your own community edition version on premises.

It is a drug dealer model.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 12:43 UTC (Tue) by murukesh (subscriber, #97031) [Link]

The community edition of Gitlab, used by Debian and GNOME, IIRC, seems to be a good example. They worked with Debian to satisfy their concerns about free software.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 18:30 UTC (Tue) by brunowolff (guest, #71160) [Link]

The Fedora project has developed Pagure for this. They both develop the code and run a service.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 2:09 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link] (1 responses)

SourceHut looks interesting:

https://sourcehut.org/ https://sr.ht/

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 3, 2019 16:09 UTC (Fri) by whereswaldon (subscriber, #125740) [Link]

Speaking as a sourcehut user, I highly recommend it. The platform is fast, clean, and does what I need. I admit that there's a learning curve when it comes to pull requests, but that doesn't kill things for me. For projects of importance, I might mirror the code to a more mainstream git host so that people can report bugs and use familiar workflows at their option.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 2:44 UTC (Tue) by brennen (subscriber, #111865) [Link] (5 responses)

Is it, though? At some point, issues and code review are as important to understanding the history of a thing as commits, and GitHub has been pretty good at locking those in.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:17 UTC (Tue) by sytoka (guest, #38525) [Link] (3 responses)

Why the Apache Fondation did not take the same way as Debian with it's own instance of GitLab: https://salsa.debian.org/public

GitHub is not bad but how you export code AND issues AND code review to another instance ?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 12:04 UTC (Wed) by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389) [Link] (2 responses)

Joey Hess has a tool for this. Though it might pre-date review metadata, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to add. https://github-backup.branchable.com/

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 3, 2019 17:04 UTC (Fri) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link] (1 responses)

I tried to use this several years ago and got strange errors from the Debian-packaged version. I then tried to build a newer version directly from upstream source, and got a bunch of Haskell errors I was unqualified to debug.

Perhaps it's time to try again.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 4, 2019 0:53 UTC (Sat) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

Hmm, the Debian one has always worked for me.

Sadly I think it might be abandoned since joeyh removed his repos from there:

https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/removing_everything_from_gi...

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 18:24 UTC (Tue) by ocrete (subscriber, #107180) [Link]

Don't worry, it seems Apache has the issues separated in a separate proprietary service, it's in Jira!

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 29, 2019 23:07 UTC (Mon) by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039) [Link]

While I can trust Microsoft not to sink GitHub to the lows of SourceForge, it's still essentially history repeating itself; that source code is still under the control of the authors is good, but GitHub cornering bug tracking, continuous integration, and even discussion is not a good thing at all.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 29, 2019 23:15 UTC (Mon) by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758) [Link]

I would like to hear some context from ASF before jumping the gun. Generally, it looks a bad decision. But, what's the point of whining when the context or internal are missing(or did I missed it completely??).

In general term, something prompted this move might include, something which was missing in existing infrastructure hosting it!! Whew!! then it begs a bigger query, how does it survive this long?? What so radically become difficult to maintain or people are demanding using that piece???

I am NOT saying GitHub is a place, where it should go due to some compulsion or inevitability.

As @rahulsundaram already mentioned in his reply, that there are other places too. But, ASF must have considered the pros and cons before moving there, they are smart fellas.

Probably, I am not able to understand the move so evidently.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 0:41 UTC (Tue) by cbednarski (guest, #126327) [Link] (1 responses)

The move to GitHub isn't perfect. It isn't purist. It's pragmatic.

And it seems like a great move to me. The infra folks at ASF can take off their pagers, unsubscribe from some security bulletins, and focus on stuff that's important. The actual projects instead of the hosting, perhaps, or other projects, family, etc.

In addition, all the ASF projects get to tap into the GitHub's platform and massive community to spur on contributions. I can't count the number of bug reports I haven't filed because I can't find the right place in Bugzilla or Launchpad. GitHub has made tremendous progress toward bringing the open source contributor experience out of the dark ages.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 5, 2019 0:51 UTC (Sun) by gstein (guest, #3612) [Link]

Exactly. It is a lot cheaper and easier to rely heavily on GitHub, than to stand up a similar type of service.

And all of our communities win, with the improved tooling. They asked for GitHub. Not Gitlab or SourceForge or Savannah. GitHub.

We have off-site clones. There is no data loss if github.com turns off tomorrow night. Communities' workflows would be impacted, sure. But our communities have not been "captured" by a corporate entity.

-- Greg Stein, Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 1:52 UTC (Tue) by ubhofmann (subscriber, #47368) [Link] (8 responses)

I try to report bugs whenever I find any. It takes time to report bugs, but I'm more than happy to do that. It's my way to contribute to open source.

I deleted my GitHub account the day Microsoft took over. I didn't even think about it. It was totally clear that I have to do it - given all the harm this company caused to open source.

If Apache moves to GitHub, it simply means that I cannot report bugs any more.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:07 UTC (Tue) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (6 responses)

given all the harm this company caused to open source.

I detest Microsoft Windows and most MS software as much as anyone... but what harm have they actually caused to open source? Balmer called it a cancer and so on, but I can't think of any actions that actually damaged open source, and for some years now they have been active contributors to, as well as adopters of, open source. They even contribute to the linux kernel. And even opensourced their own projects like VS code. Even skype works better on linux after they acquired it than previously.

Even in older times, the reason it was relatively easy to install Linux on PCs is that Microsoft enforced some common standards on the market.

I'd call MS much more OS-friendly than, say, Apple. To delete a Github account because MS owns it doesn't make much sense to me.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 8:05 UTC (Tue) by oldtomas (guest, #72579) [Link] (1 responses)

That depends on what your take on "open source" is.

For me, it's about control: giving the end users as much control of their digital lives as possible. That's why I'm "in it". That's why I still prefer spelling it "free software" and why I tend to prefer copyleft licenses.

If that's your take too, there are many reasons to dislike Microsoft. They're lobbying the EU commission at a tune of 5 million euro a year [1]. They're using their market power to infiltrate every school and public administration and doing everything to keep them dependent. They use underhanded tactics to "convince" (I'd call it "buy") city mayors. They have a big clout when convincing decision makers -- that has been their business model for quite a while now.

Now, of course, they're trying to grab as much control of "the cloud" as they can. Azure is somewhat successful with those corporations already deeply dependent on Microsoft -- otherwise Amazon has taken their cake. That's why the takeover of Github makes sense for them!

This all results in taking control from end users, because that's how Microsoft's business works.

Of course if your take on "open source" is different, those points might not be as important to you.

[1] https://taz.de/Inoffizielle-EU-Hauptstadt-Bruessel/!5588192/
Sorry, source in German

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:38 UTC (Tue) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

> For me, it's about control: giving the end users as much control of their digital lives as possible. That's why I'm "in it". That's why I still prefer spelling it "free software" and why I tend to prefer copyleft licenses.

For me, it's about sabotaging competitors. I think Word is a piece of crap. Despite contributing to it, that opinion extends to lowriter because it's somewhat of a clone. My favourite, WordPerfect, was sabotaged by MS and has to some extent been turned into a Word clone by Corel ...

Basically, I can NOT choose software that makes my life easy, because Microsoft has set out to destroy the competition, so software that suits me is no longer available.

There's a reason there are Emacs fanatics out there. There's a reason there are vi fanatics, WordPerfect fanatics, etc. It's because they are "professional power tools". Most of the MS tools are "easy to use" aimed at the *management* who *aren't* power users. So if you actually do this stuff for a living, the MS tools get in the way, but are favoured by the bosses because they are simple enough for the bosses to understand.

Cheers,
Wol

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 7:38 UTC (Wed) by pixelpapst (guest, #55301) [Link] (3 responses)

> but what harm have they actually caused to open source?

They funded the SCO lawsuit, which bound an incredible amount of our resources and our time.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 9:31 UTC (Wed) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link] (2 responses)

That was in 2003. It's now 2019. IBM used to be evil too, now they own Red Hat -- do we boycott Red Hat? Also, MS actually was a SCO unix licensee.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 3, 2019 17:47 UTC (Fri) by zoobab (guest, #9945) [Link] (1 responses)

"IBM used to be evil too"

Just look at the IBM patents they used against Groupon, they used a diff on a list between a server and a client.

How super trivial is that?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 4, 2019 3:33 UTC (Sat) by rsidd (subscriber, #2582) [Link]

Indeed. We make a fuss about Microsoft's exfat patents but IBM is at a whole other level where patent extortion is concerned. There is also this infamous IBM-Sun patent story.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:27 UTC (Tue) by havardk (subscriber, #810) [Link]

If Apache moves to GitHub, it simply means that I cannot report bugs any more.
The announcement only talks about git hosting. Github issues seems to be disabled for the apache repos I have looked at, and bugtracking continues to be where it used to be using either bugzilla or Jira.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 1:56 UTC (Tue) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (5 responses)

Maybe now OpenOffice will have enough functioning infrastructure to push out fixes for zero-days in less than… how many years did it take last time?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 8:27 UTC (Tue) by t-v (guest, #112111) [Link] (4 responses)

AOO uses subversion, e.g. here http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/
Though they've had a git mirror on github for quite some time.
They discussed doing a 4.2.0 beta in January/February/March, but that felt rushed and now they seem to go for a 4.2.0 developer build instead, maybe in May.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:25 UTC (Tue) by andrewsh (subscriber, #71043) [Link] (3 responses)

Some people just cannot accept they’ve lost, and recommend a better alternative.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 21:40 UTC (Wed) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link] (2 responses)

To be fair, the pace of development of AOO has increased from its lowest point (though it's not in a good place). Also the practice of regular trolling by AOO-associated personalities *seems* to be in the past?

I mean I agree their domain should really present the realistic picture to potential users. Hey, both these projects exist. As an end user you probably want to use LibreOffice. We welcome developers, here's what differentiates the projects.

But I also feel we can maybe leave this dead horse alone for a while.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 4, 2019 1:26 UTC (Sat) by jubal (subscriber, #67202) [Link] (1 responses)

They're not paid by IBM to do that anymore, just like IBM re-assigned all their developers to some other tasks.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 8, 2019 12:42 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Well, IBM originally bought Lotus SmartSuite, then they rebadged OpenOffice as SmartSuite. That's why they had developers involved, I guess.

What's happened to SmartSuite now? I guess they pulled the plug because users either jumped to LO, or MS Office.

Cheers,
Wol

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 3:35 UTC (Tue) by JohnVonNeumann (guest, #131609) [Link]

I think this is a good thing, they don't own the code, it's still just Git and the move opens the projects up to a swath of newer and younger engineers that have grown up on Github. I know that as a younger developer, I cringe a bit when all I can find is a crusty non-official mirror 4 years out of date on Github. I'm not saying that my opinion is the correct one either, respect is due to the old schoolers who support these projects, but I can't see how it's a bad thing to host these projects on Github.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 4:52 UTC (Tue) by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758) [Link] (1 responses)

Well, here is some context...someone shared :

https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-soft...

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 10:09 UTC (Tue) by NAR (subscriber, #1313) [Link]

As far as I understand, "an increasing number of projects and their communities wanted to see their source code available on GitHub" was the reason. Network-effect.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:11 UTC (Tue) by highvoltage (subscriber, #57465) [Link] (5 responses)

It's just bizarre that anyone chooses to move their code to any non-free code hosting platform when there are perfectly good code free software platforms that exist. Even more so when it's from a foundation who you would think would want to promote and grow free software.

Debian moved to using GitLab only last year and it hosts over 2TB worth of projects already and does just fine, GitLab was also nice in helping with needed features and even made their licensing more friendly (which is a *huge* commitment) to accommodate projects like Debian. IMHO Apache Foundation should've reached out to GitLab first, I'm sure they would provide much more support than they'd ever get for a paid for GitHub account. It's not like AF is some small dinky non-profit, I'd expect more from them than this.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 9:02 UTC (Tue) by medicalwei (subscriber, #103028) [Link] (3 responses)

Even we are using GitLab in Debian, I can see some complaints of JavaScript requirements, issue system that doesn't work offline (in contrast bugs.debian.org uses email so we can just download email and work offline on the issue).

I would like to give Sourcehut a try, but don't have much willpower to do that since I currently write almost no code outside work.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 9:22 UTC (Tue) by laarmen (subscriber, #63948) [Link]

I don't get the supposed "contrast" between bugs.d.o and GitLab issues. If you chose to, you can get all notifications over email, including issues, with (some) threading support, and only use the email interface. According to the docs, you can even create issues from email, which is nice (I haven't tested it) : https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/project/issues/create_new...

Sure, it takes a bit of configuration for that last one, but at least it's relatively straightforward. The Debian BTS controls don't need much in way of software to do your reporting, but you need to learn a new DSL, which in my book isn't exactly user-friendly either :-)

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 22:10 UTC (Tue) by roc (subscriber, #30627) [Link] (1 responses)

> I can see some complaints of JavaScript requirements, issue system that doesn't work offline (in contrast bugs.debian.org uses email so we can just download email and work offline on the issue).

Both of those are also true of Github, which is the comparison you replied to.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 2, 2019 16:15 UTC (Thu) by robbe (guest, #16131) [Link]

If you just want read-only access, GitHub is much more usable without JavaScript than GitLab.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 5, 2019 1:02 UTC (Sun) by gstein (guest, #3612) [Link]

Apache is about open source software, rather than Free Software. Our mission is to create software for the public good. Using non-Free stuff can help our mission.

It was a pragmatic move to take advantage of GitHub tools, as many of our communities were requesting. So we made it happen for them.

-- Greg Stein, Infrastructure Administrator, ASF

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:19 UTC (Tue) by bovinespirit (subscriber, #88348) [Link] (3 responses)

Does this mean that Subversion development will be moving to GitHub?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 14:42 UTC (Tue) by rillian (subscriber, #11344) [Link]

That would be amusing. Right now there's https://github.com/apache/subversion which is up-to-date with the svn repo. The description says it's a mirror.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 5, 2019 0:59 UTC (Sun) by gstein (guest, #3612) [Link] (1 responses)

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 6, 2019 22:40 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

I think that might be one of the best April Fool's I've ever seen. I caught myself in the middle of the thread thinking "oh crap, half the commenters think this is a joke, don't they?". Then I realised that one participant who was taking it dead seriously was gstein, who'd *pointed me at the thread*...

If I hadn't come to it because of your comment I'd have been completely in the dark until the last comment. Perfect deadpanning of the Apache Way at its most procedural. The only thing it missed was a formal vote actually in the Jira thread.

(Though libsvn_ra_git was, AIUI, not a joke.)

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 14:07 UTC (Tue) by ncm (guest, #165) [Link] (3 responses)

This move is consistent with the principle, "Apache is where Free Software projects go to die."

If only Java would die a little quicker...

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted Apr 30, 2019 20:02 UTC (Tue) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link] (2 responses)

Oracle's been doing a good job of killing their own influence over Java; most distros have ditched their version in favour of OpenJDK/OpenJ9 already.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 2, 2019 0:14 UTC (Thu) by k8to (guest, #15413) [Link] (1 responses)

Isn't OpenJDK still pretty much an oracle project, or have the developers moved along?

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 2, 2019 6:07 UTC (Thu) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link]

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 1:10 UTC (Wed) by pj (subscriber, #4506) [Link] (4 responses)

Here's hoping what this ends up doing is making it easier to migrate to/from github. I'd love a standard way to import/export issues, code reviews, etc between forges. I care less about software being proprietary than I do about _data_ being proprietary. I don't care if MS Word is proprietary as long as I can read their documents. Services are similar: they can be as proprietary as they want, as long as I have the option to move off of them and take my data with me.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 1, 2019 7:46 UTC (Wed) by halla (subscriber, #14185) [Link] (3 responses)

" I don't care if MS Word is proprietary as long as I can read their documents."

Not even MS Word can do that reliably. Its modern file format doesn't follow the OOXML specification, making its implementation the real specification, and since that is closed up, the file format is proprietary and close, too.

Specifications are fine things, but the implementations need to be open as well.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 2, 2019 12:35 UTC (Thu) by mfuzzey (subscriber, #57966) [Link] (2 responses)

>>> Specifications are fine things, but the implementations need to be open as well.

Obviously open implementations are better, but specifications with proprietary implementations can be OK, as long as the implementation follows the specification.
In the MS Word case, as you say, it does not so the problem is more there rather than the implementation being closed.

But to have a decent chance of an implementation being conformant to a specification there really needs to be a machine executable compatibility test suite, available in a form suitable for free software use. It's very hard to correctly implement a non trivial specification just from the natural language form, which inevitably misses out some corner cases.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 2, 2019 15:45 UTC (Thu) by eru (subscriber, #2753) [Link] (1 responses)

If memory serves (over a decade from the ooxml standardization controversy, which I mostly followed via Groklaw), one of the major problems with it was that some elements are essentially defined to cause the rendering that MS Word implements. Of course the spec does not say it exactly like that, but refers to some undefined legacy implementation.

Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub

Posted May 8, 2019 13:13 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Yes - I believe the phrase "implement like Office 95" appears quite frequently ...

Cheers,
Wol


Copyright © 2019, Eklektix, Inc.
Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators.
Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds