Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Update: ASF has another
announcement with more details. An older Git service was decommissioned,
but ASF projects are still available on https://gitbox.apache.org/. "As
stated above, our GitHub integration is an augmentation of our existing
service. It is available to all committers on git-based projects to make
use of, should they so wish. All new git repositories will automatically be
available on both GitHub and Gitbox.
" (Thanks to Lars Francke)
Posted Apr 29, 2019 20:54 UTC (Mon)
by juliank (guest, #45896)
[Link] (17 responses)
Posted Apr 29, 2019 21:58 UTC (Mon)
by mageta (subscriber, #89696)
[Link] (16 responses)
Posted Apr 29, 2019 22:52 UTC (Mon)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (9 responses)
A free and open source foundation should insist on using free and open source software for its own infrastructure. There are good widely used alternatives to Github in that regard.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:59 UTC (Tue)
by nilsmeyer (guest, #122604)
[Link] (8 responses)
Such as?
Posted Apr 30, 2019 12:41 UTC (Tue)
by h2g2bob (subscriber, #130451)
[Link] (3 responses)
They offer their own cloud service too, of course, but it's better than totally-closed github.
Diversity of providers is also a good thing.
Posted May 1, 2019 9:55 UTC (Wed)
by Otus (subscriber, #67685)
[Link] (1 responses)
Not if you are after network effects. At least for me the process of reporting a bug goes like:
Can I even figure out where to report them?
Can I report issues without registering a new account somewhere?
Many times already the first fails and unless it's important to me I give up quickly if either is a no. And if I can't report the issue, them I almost certainly won't look at the code in case it's something I could contribute a fix for.
Posted May 3, 2019 16:12 UTC (Fri)
by juliank (guest, #45896)
[Link]
Posted May 3, 2019 12:14 UTC (Fri)
by zoobab (guest, #9945)
[Link]
Yes and no. It is MIT licensed, with a proprietary Enterprise version. And gitlab.com is running the proprietary version, so if you use gitlab.com, you cannot be sure you will have the same functionalities if you want to run your own community edition version on premises.
It is a drug dealer model.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 12:43 UTC (Tue)
by murukesh (subscriber, #97031)
[Link]
Posted Apr 30, 2019 18:30 UTC (Tue)
by brunowolff (guest, #71160)
[Link]
Posted May 1, 2019 2:09 UTC (Wed)
by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 3, 2019 16:09 UTC (Fri)
by whereswaldon (subscriber, #125740)
[Link]
Posted Apr 30, 2019 2:44 UTC (Tue)
by brennen (subscriber, #111865)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:17 UTC (Tue)
by sytoka (guest, #38525)
[Link] (3 responses)
GitHub is not bad but how you export code AND issues AND code review to another instance ?
Posted May 1, 2019 12:04 UTC (Wed)
by mathstuf (subscriber, #69389)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted May 3, 2019 17:04 UTC (Fri)
by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497)
[Link] (1 responses)
Perhaps it's time to try again.
Posted May 4, 2019 0:53 UTC (Sat)
by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
[Link]
Sadly I think it might be abandoned since joeyh removed his repos from there:
https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/removing_everything_from_gi...
Posted Apr 30, 2019 18:24 UTC (Tue)
by ocrete (subscriber, #107180)
[Link]
Posted Apr 29, 2019 23:07 UTC (Mon)
by jkingweb (subscriber, #113039)
[Link]
Posted Apr 29, 2019 23:15 UTC (Mon)
by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758)
[Link]
In general term, something prompted this move might include, something which was missing in existing infrastructure hosting it!! Whew!! then it begs a bigger query, how does it survive this long?? What so radically become difficult to maintain or people are demanding using that piece???
I am NOT saying GitHub is a place, where it should go due to some compulsion or inevitability.
As @rahulsundaram already mentioned in his reply, that there are other places too. But, ASF must have considered the pros and cons before moving there, they are smart fellas.
Probably, I am not able to understand the move so evidently.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 0:41 UTC (Tue)
by cbednarski (guest, #126327)
[Link] (1 responses)
And it seems like a great move to me. The infra folks at ASF can take off their pagers, unsubscribe from some security bulletins, and focus on stuff that's important. The actual projects instead of the hosting, perhaps, or other projects, family, etc.
In addition, all the ASF projects get to tap into the GitHub's platform and massive community to spur on contributions. I can't count the number of bug reports I haven't filed because I can't find the right place in Bugzilla or Launchpad. GitHub has made tremendous progress toward bringing the open source contributor experience out of the dark ages.
Posted May 5, 2019 0:51 UTC (Sun)
by gstein (guest, #3612)
[Link]
And all of our communities win, with the improved tooling. They asked for GitHub. Not Gitlab or SourceForge or Savannah. GitHub.
We have off-site clones. There is no data loss if github.com turns off tomorrow night. Communities' workflows would be impacted, sure. But our communities have not been "captured" by a corporate entity.
-- Greg Stein, Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
Posted Apr 30, 2019 1:52 UTC (Tue)
by ubhofmann (subscriber, #47368)
[Link] (8 responses)
I deleted my GitHub account the day Microsoft took over. I didn't even think about it. It was totally clear that I have to do it - given all the harm this company caused to open source.
If Apache moves to GitHub, it simply means that I cannot report bugs any more.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:07 UTC (Tue)
by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
[Link] (6 responses)
I detest Microsoft Windows and most MS software as much as anyone... but what harm have they actually caused to open source? Balmer called it a cancer and so on, but I can't think of any actions that actually damaged open source, and for some years now they have been active contributors to, as well as adopters of, open source. They even contribute to the linux kernel. And even opensourced their own projects like VS code. Even skype works better on linux after they acquired it than previously.
Even in older times, the reason it was relatively easy to install Linux on PCs is that Microsoft enforced some common standards on the market.
I'd call MS much more OS-friendly than, say, Apple. To delete a Github account because MS owns it doesn't make much sense to me.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 8:05 UTC (Tue)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link] (1 responses)
For me, it's about control: giving the end users as much control of their digital lives as possible. That's why I'm "in it". That's why I still prefer spelling it "free software" and why I tend to prefer copyleft licenses.
If that's your take too, there are many reasons to dislike Microsoft. They're lobbying the EU commission at a tune of 5 million euro a year [1]. They're using their market power to infiltrate every school and public administration and doing everything to keep them dependent. They use underhanded tactics to "convince" (I'd call it "buy") city mayors. They have a big clout when convincing decision makers -- that has been their business model for quite a while now.
Now, of course, they're trying to grab as much control of "the cloud" as they can. Azure is somewhat successful with those corporations already deeply dependent on Microsoft -- otherwise Amazon has taken their cake. That's why the takeover of Github makes sense for them!
This all results in taking control from end users, because that's how Microsoft's business works.
Of course if your take on "open source" is different, those points might not be as important to you.
[1] https://taz.de/Inoffizielle-EU-Hauptstadt-Bruessel/!5588192/
Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:38 UTC (Tue)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
For me, it's about sabotaging competitors. I think Word is a piece of crap. Despite contributing to it, that opinion extends to lowriter because it's somewhat of a clone. My favourite, WordPerfect, was sabotaged by MS and has to some extent been turned into a Word clone by Corel ...
Basically, I can NOT choose software that makes my life easy, because Microsoft has set out to destroy the competition, so software that suits me is no longer available.
There's a reason there are Emacs fanatics out there. There's a reason there are vi fanatics, WordPerfect fanatics, etc. It's because they are "professional power tools". Most of the MS tools are "easy to use" aimed at the *management* who *aren't* power users. So if you actually do this stuff for a living, the MS tools get in the way, but are favoured by the bosses because they are simple enough for the bosses to understand.
Cheers,
Posted May 1, 2019 7:38 UTC (Wed)
by pixelpapst (guest, #55301)
[Link] (3 responses)
They funded the SCO lawsuit, which bound an incredible amount of our resources and our time.
Posted May 1, 2019 9:31 UTC (Wed)
by rsidd (subscriber, #2582)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted May 3, 2019 17:47 UTC (Fri)
by zoobab (guest, #9945)
[Link] (1 responses)
Just look at the IBM patents they used against Groupon, they used a diff on a list between a server and a client.
How super trivial is that? Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:27 UTC (Tue)
by havardk (subscriber, #810)
[Link]
Posted Apr 30, 2019 1:56 UTC (Tue)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 8:27 UTC (Tue)
by t-v (guest, #112111)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:25 UTC (Tue)
by andrewsh (subscriber, #71043)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted May 1, 2019 21:40 UTC (Wed)
by k8to (guest, #15413)
[Link] (2 responses)
I mean I agree their domain should really present the realistic picture to potential users. Hey, both these projects exist. As an end user you probably want to use LibreOffice. We welcome developers, here's what differentiates the projects.
But I also feel we can maybe leave this dead horse alone for a while.
Posted May 4, 2019 1:26 UTC (Sat)
by jubal (subscriber, #67202)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 8, 2019 12:42 UTC (Wed)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
What's happened to SmartSuite now? I guess they pulled the plug because users either jumped to LO, or MS Office.
Cheers,
Posted Apr 30, 2019 3:35 UTC (Tue)
by JohnVonNeumann (guest, #131609)
[Link]
Posted Apr 30, 2019 4:52 UTC (Tue)
by unixbhaskar (guest, #44758)
[Link] (1 responses)
https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-soft...
Posted Apr 30, 2019 10:09 UTC (Tue)
by NAR (subscriber, #1313)
[Link]
Posted Apr 30, 2019 7:11 UTC (Tue)
by highvoltage (subscriber, #57465)
[Link] (5 responses)
Debian moved to using GitLab only last year and it hosts over 2TB worth of projects already and does just fine, GitLab was also nice in helping with needed features and even made their licensing more friendly (which is a *huge* commitment) to accommodate projects like Debian. IMHO Apache Foundation should've reached out to GitLab first, I'm sure they would provide much more support than they'd ever get for a paid for GitHub account. It's not like AF is some small dinky non-profit, I'd expect more from them than this.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 9:02 UTC (Tue)
by medicalwei (subscriber, #103028)
[Link] (3 responses)
I would like to give Sourcehut a try, but don't have much willpower to do that since I currently write almost no code outside work.
Posted Apr 30, 2019 9:22 UTC (Tue)
by laarmen (subscriber, #63948)
[Link]
Sure, it takes a bit of configuration for that last one, but at least it's relatively straightforward. The Debian BTS controls don't need much in way of software to do your reporting, but you need to learn a new DSL, which in my book isn't exactly user-friendly either :-)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 22:10 UTC (Tue)
by roc (subscriber, #30627)
[Link] (1 responses)
Both of those are also true of Github, which is the comparison you replied to.
Posted May 2, 2019 16:15 UTC (Thu)
by robbe (guest, #16131)
[Link]
Posted May 5, 2019 1:02 UTC (Sun)
by gstein (guest, #3612)
[Link]
It was a pragmatic move to take advantage of GitHub tools, as many of our communities were requesting. So we made it happen for them.
-- Greg Stein, Infrastructure Administrator, ASF
Posted Apr 30, 2019 11:19 UTC (Tue)
by bovinespirit (subscriber, #88348)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 14:42 UTC (Tue)
by rillian (subscriber, #11344)
[Link]
Posted May 5, 2019 0:59 UTC (Sun)
by gstein (guest, #3612)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 6, 2019 22:40 UTC (Mon)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
If I hadn't come to it because of your comment I'd have been completely in the dark until the last comment. Perfect deadpanning of the Apache Way at its most procedural. The only thing it missed was a formal vote actually in the Jira thread.
(Though libsvn_ra_git was, AIUI, not a joke.)
Posted Apr 30, 2019 14:07 UTC (Tue)
by ncm (guest, #165)
[Link] (3 responses)
If only Java would die a little quicker...
Posted Apr 30, 2019 20:02 UTC (Tue)
by flussence (guest, #85566)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted May 2, 2019 0:14 UTC (Thu)
by k8to (guest, #15413)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 2, 2019 6:07 UTC (Thu)
by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118)
[Link]
Posted May 1, 2019 1:10 UTC (Wed)
by pj (subscriber, #4506)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted May 1, 2019 7:46 UTC (Wed)
by halla (subscriber, #14185)
[Link] (3 responses)
Not even MS Word can do that reliably. Its modern file format doesn't follow the OOXML specification, making its implementation the real specification, and since that is closed up, the file format is proprietary and close, too.
Specifications are fine things, but the implementations need to be open as well.
Posted May 2, 2019 12:35 UTC (Thu)
by mfuzzey (subscriber, #57966)
[Link] (2 responses)
Obviously open implementations are better, but specifications with proprietary implementations can be OK, as long as the implementation follows the specification.
But to have a decent chance of an implementation being conformant to a specification there really needs to be a machine executable compatibility test suite, available in a form suitable for free software use. It's very hard to correctly implement a non trivial specification just from the natural language form, which inevitably misses out some corner cases.
Posted May 2, 2019 15:45 UTC (Thu)
by eru (subscriber, #2753)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted May 8, 2019 13:13 UTC (Wed)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
Cheers,
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
given all the harm this company caused to open source.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Sorry, source in German
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Wol
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
If Apache moves to GitHub, it simply means that I cannot report bugs any more.
The announcement only talks about git hosting. Github issues seems to be disabled for the apache repos I have looked at, and bugtracking continues to be where it used to be using either bugzilla or Jira.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Though they've had a git mirror on github for quite some time.
They discussed doing a 4.2.0 beta in January/February/March, but that felt rushed and now they seem to go for a 4.2.0 developer build instead, maybe in May.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
They're not paid by IBM to do that anymore, just like IBM re-assigned all their developers to some other tasks.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Wol
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
As far as I understand, "an increasing number of projects and their communities wanted to see their source code available on GitHub" was the reason. Network-effect.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
In the MS Word case, as you say, it does not so the problem is more there rather than the implementation being closed.
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Apache Software Foundation moves to GitHub
Wol