Test releases - be careful out there
Some of the problems being encountered are not surprising to anybody. FC2t2 is the first test release which has SELinux enabled. The incorporation of SELinux into a multipurpose distribution like Fedora is simply guaranteed to generate a fair number of surprises. Working with SELinux in the test release is, in fact, likely to be relatively obnoxious; it is, after all, a fundamentally different security model. There will be a lot of glitches to shake out. Anybody who is even thinking about going near Fedora SELinux in the near future should have a good look at the FC2 SELinux FAQ first. Then read it a second time.
Adding SELinux is certain to be disruptive. Some users will no doubt be unhappy about the fact that they are, in some sense, helping Red Hat debug this feature so that it can be incorporated (with less pain) into the Enterprise Linux products. Bringing in SELinux is an important thing to do, however; we have to improve the security of our systems, and SELinux has the potential to help in the containment of compromises. The Fedora Project is doing us all a favor by blazing this particular trail.
The FC2t2 installation disk has also surprised a number of testers by refusing to boot on their systems. The workaround is fairly straightforward: boot from an earlier Fedora disk, then swap CDs at the boot prompt. But this failure, combined with some other difficulties, has led some potential testers to criticize Red Hat in a loud and public way. The claim is that insufficient quality control on Red Hat's part led to them wasting a bunch of time and bandwidth downloading a release that they cannot even install, much less test.
What may be happening here is that Fedora is bringing in some new users who
are unaccustomed to testing bleeding-edge software. New participants in
the development process are more than welcome, but they do need to realize
that they are exactly that: participants in the development process. No
product as complicated as a Linux distribution is going to reach a steady
state without a great many testers giving it a try and shaking out the
bugs; this is true even of distribution releases which do not include little
novelties like the 2.6 kernel and SELinux. If you install (or attempt to
install) a test release, you have to be prepared for surprises. When a
surprise finds you, it's time to pick up the pieces and help the developers
figure out what's going on. But it helps nobody if testers criticize those
developers when the test
release they have provided (for free) has problems.
Posted Apr 1, 2004 3:20 UTC (Thu)
by Baylink (guest, #755)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Apr 1, 2004 8:57 UTC (Thu)
by LinuxLobbyist (guest, #6541)
[Link]
Agreed. I witnessed that infamous "FC2 test2 is a BAD joke" thread and was quite frankly, appalled. I have personally kept my test system (starting with FC2 test1) updated with yum and did the (pseudo) upgrade via yum as well, so I didn't run into the problems that some did with the installer not working. (Not the best way to test, but I did follow the necessary manual enabling of selinux and believe I have a system that is close enough to stock FC2T2 plus updates to do reasonable testing.)
Even if I had attempted a normal clean install, and had run into the problems some others had, I would have used my technical experience and know-how to work around the problems the best I could. If I couldn't, well I would wait to see if a workaround was eventually posted to the list or see if a respin was regenerated, or whatever. That's the nature of testing. If you can't handle it, do something else (i.e.: go away and stop insulting developers who work harder than you may think).
I was quite frankly astounded by the ignorance and insulting comments of the original poster about this admittedly showstopper (for some) goof on Red Hat's part. It's part of the process and the original poster's attitude was inexcusable.
Posted Apr 1, 2004 12:48 UTC (Thu)
by boerner (guest, #4247)
[Link]
Posted Apr 5, 2004 15:39 UTC (Mon)
by rwmj (subscriber, #5474)
[Link]
Rich.
No *may* about it -- this problem is 100% expectation management. Test releases - be careful out there
Your appraisal seems right on target to me, Jon.
Test releases - be careful out there
Here here...I could not have said it better myself. I only hope that Red Hat takes the criticism with a grain of salt. Fedora is a fine product, and I hope they continue in the same fashion.
Test releases - be careful out there
Does this mean that all the "capabilities" stuff which was
introduced into the kernel a few years back but never really
made it into userspace has been/can be removed?
SElinux