Some challenges for GNOME online accounts
Some challenges for GNOME online accounts
Posted Feb 14, 2019 22:14 UTC (Thu) by jccleaver (guest, #127418)In reply to: Some challenges for GNOME online accounts by colo
Parent article: Some challenges for GNOME online accounts
There is a traditional audience for open source software and tooling. For computer users.
There is also an audience (a much bigger one) for turnkey solutions. For computer consumers.
Unlike, say 15 or 20 years ago, the mode/median needs of the population of computing hardware users is not interested in -- nor do they have a plausible route to -- programming and utilization of computers in a meaningful way for the open source community. 25 years ago, even closed systems had paths to scripting and user-control of the system: HyperCard springs to mind on the Mac, and AppleScript (a language derivative) and other macro systems provided an onramp to programmer/administrator-level control of a complex piece of hardware and software.
As consumer use of computing systems took off, from the workplace and prosumer environment and game-player or family system to the current era of *mass* smartphone consumption of internet-based walled gardens, the attempt by desktop environments to duplicate the mobile OS environment has doomed itself to failure in pursuit of an audience that doesn't exist.
Mass consumers who want to pick apps from a curated gallery are not interested in the complexities of local administration.
System administrators and programmers who can effectively use open-source software (that is: understand the source, should the need to do so arise) are not interested in flatpak application distributions.
(I'll leave my thoughts on Devs who point-and-click mystery containers and assume someone upstream knows what they're doing unsaid.)
GNOME should avoid impossible features such as these within its core design and allow for simplifications for embedded situations to sit on top of it. Anything else really doesn't seem a tenable position in the long run.
Posted Feb 15, 2019 2:12 UTC (Fri)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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There are more programmers and developers and all that stuff then there ever was before. They are doing more sophisticated, more interesting, and more useful stuff on a larger scale then ever before. And it's not all high level stuff. There is more going on in digital electronics then ever before and it's much more accessible and being used by individuals and small businesses then ever before. We have more options, more tools, more document, easier access to in-depth information, larger community, more diverse community. Cheaper, better, faster.
It's just that the desktop doesn't have anywhere close to the same level of utility that it did 10-15 years ago. The world has moved on to bigger and better things. If you were in any business and you told everybody you think that it would be a great idea to write a new desktop app in C or C++ they would probably want to see some serious justification for that decision before they would take you seriously. It's kinda lunatic approach to doing things nowadays unless you are writing some 3D game or something like CAD software.
As far as tablets and smart phones.. People are using computers for things other then 'computing'. Widespread proliferation of these devices just reflects that. After all the point of software is not software. The point of computers is not computers. It's that you can do useful things with these things to improve your life and make the world a better place. Having a interface that is convenient to have around when you need them is a improvement. The problem with them is that they become walled gardens and the corporations that control them attempt to use copyright and other IP laws to seize control of user's data and devices to control and monitor them. It's beyond critical that open source and secure alternatives exist for those people who seek them out.
Even in tablets and smartphones open source software is utterly dominate, although layered over with proprietary garbage. Android AOSP is a FLOSS operating system that isn't really alien or that different from a regular Linux distribution anymore and is increasingly compatible with any and all sofware people would care to run on any traditional Linux OS. The number of phones out there a year or older that is capable of running more vanilla Google-free Android is enormous. I am sure that it can be numbered in the millions world-wide. The opportunity is huge.
As far as flatpack goes.. There isn't anything mysterious about their contents. Not any more mysterious then what you have in a install CD or a Deb mirror. If you want to know what is going on all you have to do is look. The first thing I do when I look to use containers for anything is find out the docker file for them and see what is actually going into them. It's actually pretty easy to understand what is going on in most containers if you want.
Which reflects more on the fact that open source software is so completely and utterly dominate at this point that it's not even funny. You may poo-poo containers, but it's containers that are a large part of making this possible. It simply would never work if everybody had to depend on RPMs or Debian releases for their software... it's simply a ineffective approach for many things. (not everything).
I think the biggest problem we are going to see going forward with many important open source software projects is that after 20 or 30 years of continuous development they have reached such a high degree of sophistication that anybody possessing less then 10 years of working with these sorts of projects is not going to be able to make a meaningful contribution. It's a barrier of entry problem.
Posted Feb 15, 2019 17:42 UTC (Fri)
by daniels (subscriber, #16193)
[Link] (1 responses)
System administrators and programmers who can effectively use open-source software (that is: understand the source, should the need to do so arise) are not interested in flatpak application distributions. As a system administrator and programmer who can effectively use open-source software, including understanding the source and/or just writing it in the first place - I am interested in Flatpak application distribution, and have had a huge benefit from Docker-like container systems as well. As have many, many, others who developed those technologies in the first place, develop with those technologies, and also consume the results. If you don't like them, fine, but there's no reason to be condescending about it.
Posted Feb 15, 2019 18:22 UTC (Fri)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
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Not true. These are overtly general remarks and easily disproven by even a few personal experiences. Even within a small sample of 6 sysadmins in my team, the vast majority of them are quite interested in Flatpaks. One runs several for random games. Two of them are experimenting with using Flatpak + Fedora Silverblue and so on. If you step back and look at container style app deployments, such interests would extend to a lot more people.
Some challenges for GNOME online accounts
Some challenges for GNOME online accounts
(I'll leave my thoughts on Devs who point-and-click mystery containers and assume someone upstream knows what they're doing unsaid.)Some challenges for GNOME online accounts