Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

[Posted October 5, 2018 by jake]

Microsoft has announced that it has joined the LOT Network, which is an organization set up to help thwart patent trolls by licensing any member's patents to all members if they end up in the hands of a troll. "What does all of this mean for you if you’re a software developer or in the technology business? It means that Microsoft is taking another step to help stop patents from being asserted against you by companies running aggressive monetization campaigns. It also means that Microsoft is aligning with other industry leaders on this topic and committing to do more in the future to address IP risk. By joining the LOT network, we are committing to license our patents for free to other members if we ever transfer them to companies in the business of asserting patents. This pledge has immediate value to the nearly 300 members of the LOT community today, which covers approximately 1.35 million patents."

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 10:05 UTC (Fri) by giggls (subscriber, #48434) [Link] (6 responses)

How does this match the fact, that Microsoft is charging a lot of money from many companies using Android with those dubious FAT patents?

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 10:35 UTC (Fri) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link] (5 responses)

LOT is meant to protect its members against patent trolls. Patent trolls are companies that don't make products, they just buy patents and then sue other companies. (Specifically LOT seems to define it as companies where >50% of gross revenue comes from patent assertion.)

Microsoft is clearly not a patent troll, so this has no effect on their patents. It would only matter if Microsoft transferred its FAT patents to a patent troll, in which case other LOT members would immediately get a free licence to those patents.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 16:16 UTC (Fri) by dobbelj (guest, #112849) [Link] (2 responses)

Well, that makes Microsofts actions perfectly fine then, because they aren't technically a troll.

Jesus christ.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 8, 2018 15:45 UTC (Mon) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]

It's probably still progress. Which is good.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 9, 2018 0:34 UTC (Tue) by wahern (subscriber, #37304) [Link]

This is why the patent troll argument is rather dubious, at least in the abstract. If you believe patents are necessary and useful then it's really difficult to differentiate a practicing from a non-practicing entity in terms of their economic function of remunerating the inventor. If you suggest that practicing entities will moderate enforcement because of their legal exposure to other practicing entities, then you're admitting that the patent system inherently favors large corporations with large portfolios.

If you believe patents should be abolished or even significantly weakened (for everything or just a particular domain), then getting of rid of so-called patent trolls removes the pressure to limit the scope of patents (validity, enforcement, etc) from the entities with both the greatest power and motivation to make that happen--big corporations with large patent portfolios and even greater exposure to infringement claims.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 12, 2018 10:50 UTC (Fri) by zoobab (guest, #9945) [Link] (1 responses)

Collective shields don't work against patent trolls.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 12, 2018 11:09 UTC (Fri) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link]

That might be relevant in the other discussion about Microsoft joining OIN, but (as I understand it) LOT isn't anything like a collective shield. LOT is basically a way of stopping members selling their patents to patent trolls and those patent trolls then suing other members. If there are lots of members, hopefully that will significantly reduce the ability of patent trolls to acquire useful patents.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 11:31 UTC (Fri) by Gladrim (subscriber, #45751) [Link] (4 responses)

Would be nice if they joined the Open Invention Network (OIN). If they're serious about patent protection, that's the place to be.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 14:03 UTC (Fri) by chadcatlett (subscriber, #126771) [Link] (2 responses)

OIN's primary benefit, its prime goal too, is for the protection of Linux and it's related ecosystem. I know it has a lot of members and other areas it can benefit, but first and foremost it's goal is protection of members as it relates to Linux and Linux related things.

LOT also has numerous members and covers cases where OIN might not; I'm not saying LOT is better than OIN, just that both can have benefits.

The area I'm unsure on with LOT is how many patients you get access to as the website makes it sound like start-ups get access to three patents with possible eligibility for more via their referral program.

My question is what if a company(say MSFT) who is clearly not a startup joins, how many patients does that company have access to?

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 15:14 UTC (Fri) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link] (1 responses)

From their FAQs, it doesn't sound like startups get access to 3 patents, they get *ownership* of 3 patents (from a pool donated by larger members), with the condition that they don't assert those patents against anyone who was already a LOT member. I get the impression that it's simply an extra incentive for startups to join, presumably because of the danger of startups developing a few new patents then going bankrupt and selling those patents to patent trolls. The benefit to larger members is that they won't be vulnerable to those patent trolls, if the startup has joined LOT.

LOT members are still free to assert patents against each other (except these startup incentive ones). They just can't sell their patents to a patent troll who then sues other LOT members.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 5, 2018 23:01 UTC (Fri) by chadcatlett (subscriber, #126771) [Link]

Ahh good points. I only quickly read it their different FAQs, and I see what you are talking about now that I read them again.

OIN definitely seems a better deal in terms of overall goals that align with FOSS.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 11, 2018 14:49 UTC (Thu) by mgedmin (subscriber, #34497) [Link]

Heh, they did: https://lwn.net/Articles/768054/

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 6, 2018 8:26 UTC (Sat) by purslow (guest, #8716) [Link] (1 responses)

Not everyone agrees with LWN's reporting of this announcement :
http://techrights.org/2018/10/05/microsoft-dpa-for-market...

Microsoft loves Linux the same way wolves love sheep.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 6, 2018 10:43 UTC (Sat) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

I always described my car as a sheep in wolfs clothing.

If Linux is a sheep, it has a *lot* of wolfs clothing. More than enough to keep Microsoft awake at nights ... :-)

(Do you remember that fuss over benchmarks many years ago, when Microsoft proudly announced to the world that Windows was faster at networking than Linux?)

Cheers,
Wol

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 6, 2018 15:42 UTC (Sat) by ReallyNiceGuy (guest, #60085) [Link] (2 responses)

Im my view, software patents are broken by design. I have never seen a protection against copyright.

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 7, 2018 4:27 UTC (Sun) by gdt (subscriber, #6284) [Link] (1 responses)

I'm not across US law, but isn't their Digital Millennium Copyright Act section 1201 rules for exemptions from anti-circumvention measures exactly a "protection against copyright [law]".

Microsoft joins LOT Network, helping protect developers against patent assertions

Posted Oct 7, 2018 13:46 UTC (Sun) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]

Just because it's *called* a "copyright act", doesn't mean it *is* a copyright act ...

The DMCA is a *technology* act.

Cheers,
Wol