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Code, conflict, and conduct

Code, conflict, and conduct

Posted Sep 19, 2018 17:25 UTC (Wed) by clemensg (guest, #94377)
Parent article: Code, conflict, and conduct

"... pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone." would have been fine. Why list the latest and greatest categories from identity politics? Doesn't everyone include *everyone*?


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Code, conflict, and conduct

Posted Sep 19, 2018 18:01 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

Because history has shown that failing to enumerate various behaviours that constitute harassment results in people arguing that it's not harassment. Providing example categories has reduced that.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 26, 2018 19:44 UTC (Wed) by ksandstr (guest, #60862) [Link] (13 responses)

The point of having a laundry-list of things is to have things that're not on it. Notably, it's fine to exclude contributors for their choice of politics. There are others, but that's the main one that sticks out in its absence.

Similarly the list of forbidden things is open-ended, meaning that regardless of how one tip-toes around these things the politruks-that-be can simply knit up a paddlin' out of rumour and equivalent derivatives[-1]. Likewise the specification of what amounts to representation is left open, so there's no way to tell what -- aside from wholly anonymous contributions, which the kernel is infamous for rejecting due to the SCO kerfuffle -- wouldn't fall afoul of (say) the rainbow-haired twatter mobs.

There are other downright pernicious properties to this CoC. One of them is that it permits non-practitioners to participate in said twatter mobs at will, since penalties for e.g. harassment[0] apply only within the project. This is analoguous to the way non-practicing entities ("NPEs") are used to wage software patent wars by proxy: a NPE won't feel the burn from an auto-revocation clause in a general "public benefit" patent grant.

Another is that it enshrines a method of adjudication where the accused may be denied chance to face their accuser, or to even hear the content of the accusation in detail so as to mount a reasoned defense. As such there's nothing that wouldn't allow Kafka-style kangaroo trials where the accused is put to the block on the basis of false claims by imaginary people based on made-up evidence. There's no reason the most egregious of falsehoods wouldn't fly: by structure alone, the accused will be found guilty even when the accusation would be physically impossible[1], because all the prosecutor need do is ask that the deets be kept secret from even the accused.

Given the years-long history of this particular CoC and that of its authors, and particularly the way in which it's being applied[0] since its adoption in Linux, I hereby argue directly that these glaring flaws are in the CoC by design. In practice the document is a tool of power, of fascism presented as manners. Unless these failures are remedied forthwith, Linux as we knew it two weeks ago will become a sterile wasteland of poor technical choices[2] enshrined in the politics of ass-kissing, corporate power, and the accompanying cultural rot.[3]

[-1] for example, the number of claims made by anonymous people, as in the case of the german Tor developer accused of pretty much grabbing all the buttocks wherever he went. Twenty nameless people making specious claims are as good as one that can be investigated, as long as the press shouts hard enough.
[0] such as the tytso kerfuffle, which the usual suspects are warming up once again; spose they didn't like his vote against the CoC?
[1] e.g. when a person would be required to be in two places at once, when the allegations are so poorly formed as to not be testable using any empirical experiment (no matter how involved or expensive) whatsoever, or the allegations require grand conspiracy of the sort that always manages to conceal itself. The latter kind in particular turns the absence of evidence into not just evidence but also an extra damning conspiracy membership!
[2] that means you, kdbus.
[3] which isn't to say that it already hadn't.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 26, 2018 20:23 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

> The point of having a laundry-list of things is to have things that're not on it. Notably, it's fine to exclude contributors for their choice of politics. There are others, but that's the main one that sticks out in its absence.

Oh come off it. If anyone did that most of the kernel contributors would be massively pissed off, since whatever you choose a lot of other maintainers probably share that political stance.

This is a code, not a program. You don't have to parse it like software. You don't even have to parse it like law: it's meant for the kernel developers to interpret, not for judges and certainly not for computers. (Also, it was adopted in a terrible hurry so worrying about its precise wording like this is simply ludicrous.)

This also explains why penalties apply only within the project: it's not a law, it doesn't have the power to imprison you (or, indeed, any power at all except what the maintainers choose to grant it). Your claim that it has been applied since it was instituted is also ludicrous: it hasn't been applied to anyone at all yet, and random bloggers talking about it are just that: random bloggers talking about it.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 26, 2018 22:10 UTC (Wed) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (10 responses)

> [-1] for example, the number of claims made by anonymous people, as in the case of the german Tor developer accused of pretty much grabbing all the buttocks wherever he went. Twenty nameless people making specious claims are as good as one that can be investigated, as long as the press shouts hard enough.

You mean the American Tor developer who sexually assaulted or raped multiple people, several of whom later put their name to their stories?

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 8:36 UTC (Thu) by paxillus (guest, #79451) [Link] (9 responses)

" ... Tor developer who sexually assaulted or raped multiple people ..."

Rape and sexual assault are serious criminal offences, not CoC oversights.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 8:44 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (8 responses)

Something being a criminal offence doesn't mean it should be ignored for CoC purposes, but the point I was making was that it's inappropriate to describe someone who raped multiple people as being "accused of pretty much grabbing all the buttocks wherever he went".

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 9:32 UTC (Thu) by paxillus (guest, #79451) [Link] (7 responses)

We're all subject to criminal law CoC, so there's no need to remind people not to rape, murder, rob ..

Due process, conducted without fear or favour, where the punishment fits the crime, seems like a better idea than trial-by-twitter.

I don't know anything about the Tor developer accusations - this is the first I've heard of it. I'm assuming from your comments that he's either admitted the crimes or been found guilty by a court.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 16:42 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (6 responses)

> Due process, conducted without fear or favour, where the punishment fits the crime, seems like a better idea than trial-by-twitter.

Due process, correctly, exists to provide a very high barrier against the state using its power against individuals. But if a conference attendee tells the organisers that a fellow attendee attempted to rape them, the organisers should take action even if the reporter is unwilling to contact the authorities.

> I'm assuming from your comments that he's either admitted the crimes or been found guilty by a court.

No, but I'm unclear on what that has to do with anything.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 20:13 UTC (Thu) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link] (1 responses)

> But if a conference attendee tells the organisers that a fellow attendee attempted to rape them, the organisers should take action even if the reporter is unwilling to contact the authorities.

And if the alleged rapist has an otherwise clean sheet, while the alleged victim has a history of making complaints?

Unfortunately, there are a fair few fantasists out there. And a lot of *MEN* are victims of sexual misbehaviour. Don't get me wrong, the majority of victims are female, and are often ignored, but those men who are victims seem to be ignored even more!

(It seems pretty common for female predators - should a man dare reject them - to accuse their intended victim of all sorts of crimes. And seeing as we're on this subject, this seems to have been the crime of the "rape apologist" - to point out that men can just as easily be victims, too.)

Cheers,
Wol

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 20:33 UTC (Thu) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

> And if the alleged rapist has an otherwise clean sheet, while the alleged victim has a history of making complaints?

Action involves listening to the complaint, talking to those involved and making a decision based on the evidence. That decision may amount to no more than "Please stay away from this person", but the decision to engage should have nothing to do with whether someone's willing to go to the police.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 28, 2018 8:57 UTC (Fri) by paxillus (guest, #79451) [Link] (3 responses)

"No, but I'm unclear on what that has to do with anything."

It's to do with "someone ... raped multiple people" and due process.

That due process has its origins in the English Barons curbing King John's power is neither here nor there.

It established the principal that

“No freeman shall be ... in any way destroyed . . . except by the legal judgment of his peers or (and) by the law of the land.”

Few would object to a multiple rapist being 'in any way destroyed' by due process.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 28, 2018 9:13 UTC (Fri) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] (2 responses)

I'm free to judge rapists in any way I want regardless of whether a court has found them guilty, just as you're free to judge me for doing so. As the OJ Simpson trial showed us, courts will (justifiably) refuse to use the power of the state against an individual if the state fails to prove its case in a reasonable way - but that doesn't demonstrate that he didn't murder his wife, and it's reasonable for individuals to treat him as if he did. Jake raped multiple people, and the absence of a legal ruling doesn't change that. If you think less of me for asserting that, well, feel free.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 28, 2018 10:16 UTC (Fri) by paxillus (guest, #79451) [Link] (1 responses)

It's not when people judge other people any way they want, it's when they grant themselves the right to 'in any way destroy' another.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 28, 2018 16:33 UTC (Fri) by raven667 (subscriber, #5198) [Link]

No one here has the power of the state to "destroy" anyone, unless you are redefining "destroy" to mean "have an adverse opinion about someone", in which case your statement is self-contradictory.

It's engineered that way.

Posted Sep 27, 2018 2:42 UTC (Thu) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

> Notably, it's fine to exclude contributors for their choice of politics.
Good. American politics is a disease. Kill it with fire.


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