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Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 8, 2018 2:46 UTC (Wed) by pabs (subscriber, #43278)
Parent article: Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Rowena Hoffer also wrote about Gervase:

https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2018/08/07/in-memoriam-ge...


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Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 17:57 UTC (Fri) by DavidAnderson (guest, #126313) [Link] (9 responses)

I come as someone who was a friend of Gerv, a good and honourable man. Many people knew and saw him as such a person. We were blessed to know him. As such, it bothers me a lot to see him treated this way. Am I allowed to defend the honour of a man who is no longer her to defend himself?

That piece seem to be from Mitchell Baker, Chair of the Mozilla Foundation, not Rowena Hoffer. It's very mean-spirited, not reflecting well on her at all. It seems, given her normal blog topics, that she singled Gerv out for special treatment.... once he'd gone.

She tries to at least appear to attempt to write a balanced remembrance, but fails badly. The overall message is quite clear. Gerv was, she wants us to know, an insensitive reactionary clot, whose conservative Christian views of overall reality are not ones we should tolerate. Such people should hide their views, even if asked about them.

What does her condemnation boil down to, if you ask a few critical questions about it? We have to ask that, because there's no substance in the post. Nothing solid you can put your hand on. It doesn't take a genius to unravel it, if you ask a few questions in between the lines. Mitchell reveals herself as unable to cope with Gerv because he was a straightforward Christian who wasn't embarrassed to be one. He didn't apologise for not agreeing with the progressive cultural consensus. She dresses it up in passive-aggressive language to try to disguise the anger and the emotional immaturity, but what's there is clear.

I mean, she can't bear to use the word "Christian" to descibre Gerv, or in any way as a follower of Christ... even whilst mentioning it's deep (fundamental) importance to Gerv. Instead, she uses code words, like "his faith". Which faith? Doing that, to any critical reader, is a big 'tell'. Tipping your hand.

By her own testimony, Mitchell, as chair of the Foundation, having been in the organisation since Gerv was an intern, had twenty years to stop the alleged trail of destruction. Why didn't she? There's only one obvious conclusion. There was no such trail of destruction. There was no case that would have stood up to scrutiny. No case to make whilst anyone was still alive to defend it. She'd have failed, and embarrassed herself if she'd tried. There were just a few people (like herself) who were not emotionally able to cope with a real-world, flesh-and-blood Christian who had carefully thought through his views, and was able to explain them when people challenged them. This was the Gerv I personally knew from the late 1990s, and the Gerv who is widely testified to in many other remembrances. And his blog is, over 15+ years, strong evidence of this. He never wrote the kind of thing Mitchell has written, about anyone. If he disagreed with someone's *views*, it was courteous and respectful to the *person*.

To wait until a few days after he died before publicly slamming him after all that time very wrong. Making oneself judge and jury as soon as the 'accused' (in her mind) has died is very cheap and easy work. We can all do that. But he was around to respond even last month (and enough in possession of his mind to be writing a technical book). But no ... she only did it once he was safely gone. What should we say about that?

Given the things she complains about in Gerv - "publicly judging others in politely stated but damning terms", it's highly hypocritical. Those of us who read Gerv's blog know that, in 20 years of being a straightforward Christian, he never wrote like Mitchell has just done. Slamming someone publicly a few days after they've been buried. And presenting herself as the voice of sweet reason whilst doing so! And that, after knowing for many months that he was dying. It wasn't sudden; it wasn't unexpected; it wasn't secret. He announced he was dying soon when he left Mozilla a few months ago, and blogged publicly about it, very humbly and engagingly.

Her piece is written in the tone of a final word on a talented, but problematic son, as if from a sighing mother who has long watched over per protegé through his stumbles, falls and attempts to improve .... whilst occasionally letting the mask slip in exasperation, and just slamming him with some bitterness. Patronising and malicious at the same time. Where is the vomit bucket, please?

The fact that so many people who disagreed with Gerv about matters concerning orthodox Christian have also testified that he was always a gentlemen, leads to a different conclusion that the one Mitchell clearly wants to leave. She wanted to write Gerv's epitaph. I know though, how Gerv would have handed that. Not with anger; not with the indignation I feel. He did care for others, but didn't care for his own reputation. He would have thought nothing of it, and been ready to extend forgiveness straight away; he would have made sure Mitchell knew that he had no problem personally with her. I know to whom Gerv would have given the credit for that, and, did he not have a right to tell people about that?

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 19:36 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (5 responses)

"Given the things she complains about in Gerv - "publicly judging others in politely stated but damning terms", it's highly hypocritical."

Given tweets like https://twitter.com/christi3k/status/1023300369416249346 it seems polite but damning seems correct to me.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 22:33 UTC (Fri) by DavidAnderson (guest, #126313) [Link] (4 responses)

That's more of the same. That Tweeter also makes a number of "tells", saying more than she intended, as most people with irrational grudges tend to do, as I'm sure we must all have experienced. She repeatedly says that it was offensive of him not to *agree with her views*, and cannot cope with how another human beings views made her *feel*.

The real world is not a 'safe space' for people who aren't mature enough to cope with the existence of people who think and believe differently to them.

Gerv has a 20-year public blogging, writing and discussion list record. She says, "[I] don't know what to do with the information that [Gerv] ... has passed". Is that true? No... she knew what to do, and there it is for us all to see. No time to make a formal complaint, requiring evidence, before. But before he's even buried, within hours of his death 11pm the night before - Twitter slime time! She knew what to do, and the results are ugly.

Is that the sort of Internet that Mozillans or any of us are fighting for? I know that Gerv wasn't, and I don't believe any of us are either. As I say, Gerv has a 20 year published record, and I don't believe it ever included treating anyone like that. We have a multitude of testimonies from people who disagreed with Gerv that he was always a gentleman, and a few angry people who give us the 'tells' that they can't emotionally cope if people disagree with them. I think the rational conclusion is clear.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 22:46 UTC (Fri) by DavidAnderson (guest, #126313) [Link]

Here's a great example of the real-world Gerv: https://gerv.net/writings/three-forms-of-diversity/ . Typically straight-forward in saying that he personally believes Jesus is Lord (he's not hiding or hedging his views), and that he sees that fact as mattering to everything; but at the same time, not just saying in theory that he's welcoming of all who are part of Mozilla's mission, but also demonstrating that in practice through working through things in detail, and also applying calm, nuanced, rational, reasoned, non-aggressive (except to people who think that disagreement with them is ipso facto aggression) analysis. The Tweeter depicts Gerv as a mere name-caller, making baseless and frenzied claims to personally attack you. The actual Gerv (c.f. the above piece) would calmly and reasonably discuss his reasons for thinking differently with you, and shake your hand and love you no less, but more, afterwards.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 23:15 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (2 responses)

" That's more of the same. That Tweeter also makes a number of "tells", saying more than she intended"

People can have wildly different experiences with the same person. It would be better for you to accept that and move on rather than try so hard to dismiss others personal direct experiences as somehow invalid or irrational.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 23:28 UTC (Fri) by DavidAnderson (guest, #126313) [Link] (1 responses)

As I say, many people have many different views: welcome to the universe. But, if they want to state them in public - especially in such a manner as that - then they're open to rational analysis and refutation.

I don't assume you have a problem with that, and I wouldn't be surprised if you hope someone will do the same for you, should you find yourself similarly treated.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 10, 2018 23:56 UTC (Fri) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

" then they're open to rational analysis and refutation."

A friend of yours just passed away. I don't think attempting to do rational analysis on this situation is really feasible. Your posts are clearly emotional and understandably so. I will leave it at that.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 11, 2018 4:14 UTC (Sat) by pabs (subscriber, #43278) [Link]

> That piece seem to be from Mitchell Baker, Chair of the Mozilla Foundation, not Rowena Hoffer.

Apologies for the incorrect attribution, I think I got the wrong name from the RSS feed.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 12, 2018 21:47 UTC (Sun) by flussence (guest, #85566) [Link]

> The fact that so many people who disagreed with Gerv about matters concerning orthodox Christian have also testified that he was always a gentlemen

I'll testify the same, from the occasional times I've read his blog and other writing. He had unusually strong religious views for someone in this region of the Internet, but that's having character, not a character flaw. (And it makes for more interesting reading than the usual hot opinions about why $software is bad…)

It was always unambiguous to me that he was at Mozilla because he believed in their stated mission, and wanted to make a positive difference. Not merely to make bank, like some others.

Kuhn: In Memoriam: Gervase Markham

Posted Aug 13, 2018 3:08 UTC (Mon) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

> The fact that so many people who disagreed with Gerv about matters concerning orthodox Christian have also testified that he was always a gentlemen

The relevant question is not how many people disagreed with Gerv in ways that were broadly inoffensive (I was certainly in this category), but the number of people who disagreed with Gerv and found that that disagreement became a lengthy argument about whether their lifestyle was fundamentally wrong. I know many in the latter category who would disagree that he was always a gentleman in the way he interacted with them.


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