Getting along in the Python community

In a session with a title that used a common misquote of Rodney King ("can't we all just get along?"), several Python developers wanted to discuss an incident that had recently occurred on the python-dev mailing list. A rude posting to the list led to a thread that got somewhat out of control. Some short tempers among the members of the Python developer community likely escalated things unnecessarily. The incident in question was brought up as something of an object lesson; people should take some time to simmer down before firing off that quick, but perhaps needlessly confrontational, reply.

The post by Ivan Pozdeev was never directly cited in the discussion (though a response in the thread by Steven D'Aprano was put up as a slide). As Guido van Rossum put it, the original poster was "being a jerk". Pozdeev complained about the tkinter module in the standard library being broken for his use case. Beyond that, he claimed that almost no one uses it and that "no-one gives a damn". He suggested that it should be removed from the standard library since it could not be maintained.

Even though Pozdeev was intentionally pushing the buttons of the Python developers, Van Rossum thought the response was a bit over the top. Brett Cannon said that by being jerks in response, the Python developers simply looked bad. Thomas Wouters agreed, saying that folks should not respond in kind; instead, give people the benefit of the doubt even if they are jerks. If you do so, they may learn and adjust their behavior next time, he said.

As D'Aprano noted, Van Rossum was the first to respond telling the poster to "go punch a bag or something, and then propose something a little more constructive, like adding a warning to the docs". That is where things should have ended, D'Aprano said, but several others responded, which made the overall response less than welcoming; "as a community we haven't lived up to our own standards, as we have piled onto him to express our [righteous] indignation".

The Python code of conduct was raised in the thread, which was premature, several said. Cannon said that mailing list participants need to get better at handling these kinds of things. The problem also occurs within the group; it is not just newbies or outsiders who generate these kinds of responses. It gives a bad impression of the Python community, he said.

Beyond that, though, those kinds of responses can lead to quick burnout, Cannon said. The vast majority of Python contributors are putting personal time into the project, so unwelcoming or unfriendly responses could easily lead to someone just walking away. It is not just the two participants that are affected, Wouters said, as anyone who reads the posting may have a negative response.

It is something that everyone should be aware of, Cannon said; take the higher ground and give people the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps there is a need for a more formal process, however. Van Rossum is not particularly worried about repeat offenders on the mailing lists; if people are repeatedly being jerks, they will be dealt with. But in this case it was a first offense, so it was premature to bring up the code of conduct. "Sitting on your hands is often a good response", he said; give it some time before responding or perhaps don't respond at all if others have already done so. Cannon echoed that: "if you feel heated, wait it out".

Van Lindberg wondered how the Python community sees itself: as friends? a club? a professional society? He is concerned about the idea of "enforcers" who patrol for code of conduct violations. He suggested that a good way to think about it would be to ask if the response you are sending is something you would do in a professional relationship; is it civil and is it the way you would engage with a coworker? He wants to ensure that Python doesn't get to a place where people are reporting on each other to the enforcement authorities.

Canned responses might help blunt the impact in handling some of these kinds of situations, Carol Willing said. If you point someone at a response, rather than responding directly, the mention of the code of conduct may not seem so prominent or unwelcoming. She agreed that when someone is having an emotional response to a post, they should wait to respond. But she also said that the original poster had owned up to trying to game the system to get a reaction; to a certain extent, Pozdeev got what he was looking for.