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Flash storage endurance

Flash storage endurance

Posted Jun 8, 2018 15:33 UTC (Fri) by excors (subscriber, #95769)
In reply to: Flash storage endurance by marcH
Parent article: Flash storage topics

I agree it would be good to have good benchmarks - I'm just concerned that bad benchmarks are worse than no benchmarks, and it seems hard to design good benchmarks for this. The problem isn't necessarily that people would cheat, it's that the marketing people would tell the engineers to spend effort on legitimately increasing a benchmark number that does not meaningfully improve the customer experience, at the expense of something more useful.

Measuring the endurance of a particular flash chip doesn't sound like it should be too difficult; just do a load of writes until you see IO failures or data loss, and maybe do something to see how effective any wear-levelling is, and compare against the vendor's endurance guarantees to make sure they're not lying. But if you want to know how that affects the lifetime of a phone, you need to know the behaviour of the software on that phone, and you need to know what memory chip it uses (which is non-trivial since a single model of phone might use parts from multiple vendors at once, for supply chain diversification, and change parts over time to reduce cost), and that's not something a typical phone review site could feasibly do. CPU/GPU benchmarks are much easier since the relevant software is provided by the benchmark itself, and the hardware is usually consistent across a phone model (or if some are different then it's probably a whole different SoC and is very obvious), so measurements on a test device are likely to match customer devices.

To get realistic data about large populations, I guess you'd need access to automatically-uploaded error logs or customer support records to see how many users have encountered storage errors. That would be nice, but seems unlikely to happen.


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Flash storage endurance

Posted Jun 8, 2018 18:20 UTC (Fri) by marcH (subscriber, #57642) [Link] (1 responses)

> But if you want to know how that affects the lifetime of a phone, you need to know the behaviour of the software on that phone,

Basic benchmark design problem, not specific to storage or endurance.

> and you need to know what memory chip it uses

Not a problem specific to storage or endurance: https://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+intel+modem

> CPU/GPU benchmarks are much easier since the relevant software is provided by the benchmark itself

Interfaces to GPU are orders of magnitude more complex than storage interfaces; one of the reasons cheating GPU benchmarks is universal: https://www.google.com/search?q=game+benchmark+cheating
https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/apitrace/
Yet no one suggests to stop benchmarking GPUs.

> The problem isn't necessarily that people would cheat, it's that the marketing people would tell the engineers to spend effort legitimately...

We know how "legitimately" often ends up with (at least) GPUs and car emissions. You can take for granted that some actors will always go "beyond legitimate"; again nothing specific to flash storage or endurance.

> I guess you'd need access to automatically-uploaded error logs or customer support records to see how many users have encountered storage errors. That would be nice, but seems unlikely to happen.

How do we know it's not happening already? (biggest lie on the Internet: "I agree")

Flash storage endurance

Posted Jun 8, 2018 18:44 UTC (Fri) by excors (subscriber, #95769) [Link]

>> I guess you'd need access to automatically-uploaded error logs or customer support records to see how many users have encountered storage errors. That would be nice, but seems unlikely to happen.
>
> How do we know it's not happening already? (biggest lie on the Internet: "I agree")

Error logs certainly get uploaded already, on some devices - they're very useful for identifying and prioritising common bugs, quickly detecting regressions when rolling out OTAs, etc. What I mean is unlikely is that the companies with that information would ever release it publicly.


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