2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 22, 2018 15:12 UTC (Thu) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454)
In reply to: 2to3 was a bad idea by ceplm
Parent article: Hovmöller: Moving a large and old codebase to Python3

??? French and German need € which is not in ISO-8859-1

French needs Œ/œ wich requires at least iso-8859-15 (and it was always easier to migrate directly to UTF-8 than get iso-8859-15 properly supported by US-centric tools)

German also needs capitalized ss nowadays

Replace French and German people by "French and German programmers using Windows with CP 1252 and pretending it is ISO-8859-1" and you may be closer to the truth.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 22, 2018 15:44 UTC (Thu) by ceplm (subscriber, #41334) [Link]

Sorry, you are right. At least, s/ISO 8859-1/ISO 8859-15/g of course.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 22, 2018 22:52 UTC (Thu) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (6 responses)

German also needs capitalized ss nowadays

Do we, now? I live in Germany and I don't think I've ever seen a capitalized ß anywhere except in press releases from the Unicode committee.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 23, 2018 4:39 UTC (Fri) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (1 responses)

German newssite Tagesschau claims that this will affect family names in identity cards. So, there will be effects.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 23, 2018 11:45 UTC (Fri) by vstinner (subscriber, #42675) [Link]

"""
Python doesn't make politic :-) Python implements Unicode standard.

Python 3.7 currently uses Unicode 10.0: haypo@selma$ ./python Python 3.7.0a0 (heads/master:b903067, Jun 30 2017, 11:49:25)
>>> unicodedata.unidata_version
'10.0.0'

It seems like Unicode 10 still uses "SS":

>>> 'ß'.upper()
'SS'

The German government has to change the Unicode standard :-) Please report this "bug" to the Unicode standard :-) So I closes this issue as "third party.
"""

https://bugs.python.org/issue30810

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 23, 2018 7:00 UTC (Fri) by tdz (subscriber, #58733) [Link] (2 responses)

Think of type setting with small capitals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_caps). The old single-size ß never looked good in these cases.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 25, 2018 0:46 UTC (Sun) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link] (1 responses)

You don't use “ß” when typesetting in small caps.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 26, 2018 9:54 UTC (Mon) by smurf (subscriber, #17840) [Link]

You didn't before the capital 'ß' existed. You do now. I've seen real-life examples.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 23, 2018 10:03 UTC (Fri) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]

Like any encoding change it will take time to be adopted, with lots of techies pretending it does not exist and blocking non-techies from using it, in order to avoid dealing with migrations

(That's where the smug people ceplm complains about come from, they will pretend their native language only needs ISO-8859-1, and work in an en_US locale with a qwerty keyboard, in the hope it convinces @boss to postpone i18n work. They mostly only end up convincing themselves.)

IIRC capital ss adoption was not uniform in German-speaking countries, with some sold on it and others more cautious.

2to3 was a bad idea

Posted Feb 28, 2018 10:19 UTC (Wed) by tedd (subscriber, #74183) [Link]

German also needs capitalized ss nowadays

Oh God, too much Reddit. I thought there was a WWII joke in there somewhere.